Pittsburgh, PA

Wait a minute.....


Dennis??

 

Ah, there it is. The refrain of the DL apologist. Those who dislike Draai Laag do not dislike them because they have an aversion to sour beer. They dislike them because they are (to put it nicely) wildly inconsistent and plagued by the desire to churn out beers so wacky and zany that Sam Calagione wouldn't even touch them.

 

lmao at that last point--I recently had a Higher Math...definitely beg to differ.

 

What is it about BAs that dislike a poster, associating them with someone else, or the brewery itself? It must be a generational thing to find this amusing. This seems to be the hallmark of a region that has very few beer geeks, and is not used to hearing the opinions of others with different tastes than what they're used to.

If either you or @kkdowning are familiar with the style, then you'll know that the only ones you listed that are wacky and zany are the "bleu cheese" beer, and, well, actually, not even that qualifies. There are plenty of really funky sours out there, many beloved, that have very prominent blue cheese flavors and/or aromas. It's actually not a stretch, at all, and you should know that if you have explored the style at all.

To continue going down the list:

ice cream beer--I mean, there isn't even anything to address with this as there are a shit ton of beers that try to taste like ice cream or utilize ingredients in ice cream. It's not even something Coors Light drinkers are unfamiliar with at this point.
banana beer--really, have you tried Nanabam? It's nothing like the typical Belgian-style wannabe American beer that is so chock full of esters and phenols that it tastes like banana bread on steroids. Actually it's a nicely tart, almost lemon forward sour saison. What is so shocking about banana being used in a beer? FFS an upcoming Bourbon County variant uses banana, lmfao.
radish beer--again I'd be really interested to know what this one is as I want to try it, like now. I'm wondering if you actually meant beet, and again, they wouldn't be the only ones to have used beets to flavor a beer or assist in fermentation. Honestly this is the only one that has me cocking my head sideways.
treasure chest beer--What, like...Dogfish Head's Ancient Ales?
drain pour scotch BA BWs--first drain pour of the list? So be it. I have had very few decent scotch barrel aged anything, barleywine or not. Haven't had the pleasure of trying out a barleywine by these guys, but...it doesn't seem to be their area of focus.
oyster/seaweed caviare nonsense--seriously, there are tons of beers out there like this. Like a metric shit ton.

To help introduce you to the wider world of this style that would have prepared you to be less surprised by this zany, wacky stuff, you should try some beers by Jester King, Scratch, Casey, Side Project, Holy Mountain, and, ahem...Cantillon, lmfao. The experimentation isn't specific to the new world and in fact can be traced back to the old more often than not.

I would love for someone to post something Draai Laag did that was truly wacky and zany and a fucking joke. Again, I admit they probably have made missteps, because one of the beers, (out of many), I've had by them was bad. But...there are very few breweries that I can't say that about, and that includes very old, established, experienced breweries.

 

I don't dislike you at all. I dislike DL.

And yeah, I meant beet beer. My bad.

 

I drink almost exclusively Saison and Mixed Fermentation beers. Lots of people in Pittsburgh like and know those styles. I like places that try new things. I love Jester King. They get "It". If you can't tell the difference between their experimentation and DL's then I'm not sure what to tell you. It's one thing to use interesting ingredients. It's another to use caviar and Ice cream in beer. I really would love to like their beers. They are at a great price point for bottles and super close. I love that they use bare bones equipment and are really DIY. I love that they do all Mixed ferm for the most part. I really respect that direction since it's tough to make it without an IPA. But it doesn't seem like they have anyone around to tell them when to dump a beer or yeast/bacteria for the greater good. Lots of top tier breweries have beer that just doesn't turn out. The difference is they dump it and/or get rid of the cultures and start over.

 

So honest question for those that aren't fans of Draai Laag: If not them, who in Pittsburgh would you suggest for sours and wilds? I'll be moving out there in a couple of months and I am looking forward to being able to visit these guys regularly, but if there is someone else in the area doing it better, I'd love to know.

 

Seems to be a theme there and that is the need to dump bad beers. Maybe the head brewer likes them, which says something about his palate, or maybe they really need better QC. I know JK has stellar reputation in making sure they don't release something they aren't proud of. But like I said I haven't experienced as many of the bad experiments as you all have so I'll concede to you guys.

I'd be interested to know as well. There are very few in the multi-state area besides Jackie O's doing the styles with consistent availability, and even in JO's case it's mostly on draft at the brewpub.

 

Honestly no one else in Pittsburgh focuses on it or really does it well. This area hasn't had access to many saisons and wild ales up until recently. Some breweries do nice Berliners but that is about it. The only place that has decided to focus on Saisons/Mixed ferm as of late is Brew Gentlemen but they are still fairly small and haven't had a lot of output yet( but their releases have been really good). The new Hitchhiker Brewing facility should be opening soon and they will be doing some mixed ferm stuff to look forward to. Actually you should give Draai Laag a try when you are here, you may like them.

 

Thanks for the tips, wasn't familiar with Hitchhiker, so thank you for that. I had Brew Gentlemen's Table Beer at the Microbrew Invitational a few weeks back and it was one of the highlights.

I have had a few of Draai Laag's beers as well, a couple were a bit underwhelming but a couple were quite good and it was easy enough to just not drink the ones that sounded too out there. But, some of what has been said sounds like QC issues or lack of QC standards and that is a red flag to me. Regardless, I still plan on checking them out some more, though maybe I start stocking up on some wilds to make the move out with me.

 

They seldom do them, but Insurrection wins in the funk department.

Roundabout's recent series of Berliners have been great. As is the BG table beer.

 

I had to dump three bottles of DL briar series that were horrible. Age did bad things to them.

 

For sure no one is focusing on it. But Roundabout's are done well when they put them out. While I don't love everything they put out, they're the only brewery around that I can say I've never had a bad beer from.

 

This is a solid idea--although the distribution is getting better, you have far better and wider access to these styles out your way than we do.

 

And that also speaks to QC issues...because wild beer shouldn't "go bad" with age. Change and development, sure...

@Sabtos - a lot of us have a long and storied history with DL. They are capable of flashing in the pan, but it's been an exhausting journey overall that I think for most of us started with extremely high hopes. Despite my venom, I'd still like for them to get their shit together...but many years later into the game...and even with a deal with Shelton Bros, they seem content to forge ahead with their current strategy...and I just can't be fooled anymore by it. Too much other good beer in PGH to waste time and energy on DL. Sure, no one is churning out bottles of wild beer like they are...but that also tells me something. For a style that's supposed to take time to mature and develop, they sure pump out the bottle releases. Their whole operation feels awkward, rushed and disjointed.

 

Gotchya, right there with ya on the time and development. This has me worried about some of the bottles I'm sitting on, but like I said I did recently have a Geestelijke that had a good amount of time on it and it was phenomenal. Do they disclose how long their beers are developing, and where they are being stored during this process? That little brewery on the river doesn't seem like the sort of place that would be conducive to racking as many beers as they had available on draft and in bottles. I just assumed they had an off-site location for that.

Seems there are a couple naysayers on that front in this thread, but obviously I'm not with them

 

By the way, curious on locals' thoughts re: Church

 

I'll handle this one dudes.

Its a fun place to visit from time to time. The patio is real nice in the summer. The beers are ok.

 

No pizza oven, no care.