Are Collaborations Successful? How Successful?

I've had several collaborations and I've really only enjoyed one between Russian River and Avery Brewing Company, Collaboration Not Litigation Ale.

 

I dont know if the end game is to make a beer better than either brews. I have had a bunch of collaborations and most are pretty good when based off who made them. Most are not better or worse than the folks beers brewing them but are different.

I did think that the Stone/Alchemist More brown than black was an amazing beer that might be better than any Stone beer I have had, Not had anything from Alchemist to judge by

Enjoy

 

Based on the question, generally no. The collaborations are usually one-shot deals and are somewhat expectedly hit-or-miss. If the two breweries continued to work on the collaboration like each does individually on their own beers, I'd expect the results may be different.

Throw in the fact that often enough, I think, the collaborations are grand attempts and something new/different/off-the-wall, I think they might be already shooting at a small target.

 

I think that collaborations are expected to yield a beer that is more than the sum of their parts, but I've never had a collabortion that impressed me.

 

A collaboration has to be more expensive since one beer has to travel (unless one brewery allows the other to brew both), and if breweries are a great distance apart then there may be travel expenses for staff as well. Collaborations may initially be fun, but I expect egos sometimes collide. And then both breweries may be reluctant to contribute their best beers in case it turns out to be a cluster. The ones I've had tasted like someone just dumped two beers together.

 

I'll clarify that I've not often had a "not well received" collaboration in the sense that they've been bad beers. But it's one beer. I'm fairly certain I could also find more than a few beers from each brewer I liked less than the collaboration beer. I look at each collaboration in that sense (especially the more ambitious ones) - as a new/experimental beer from either brewery.

That said, the price does sort of affect my decision to buy a collaboration - whether it's actually a "money grab" or not.

 

A beer can only improve when a brewer takes the time to hone in its recipe. That isn't to say there haven't been great collaborations before. Off the top of my head, Westbrook/Stillwater Gose Gone Wild was awesome. But too often it just feels like it's two breweries getting together and saying, "Hey, let's give this a shot and see how it comes out." I'm sure there's more planning and technique that goes into it than that, but the number of mediocre collaborations I've had far outweigh the good.

 

Many times a collaboration is for a cause of some sort, which means they are no longer trying to please every wrinkled taste bud of every neckbeard in Perfect Beer Land. If they don't impress you as much as you think that they should just because Brewer A and Brewer B got together, maybe you should look a little closer at what the label says about the beer and it's purpose.

 

I'm sure they do, but they (I'm guessing, in most cases) get together once. Not test batches, no dialing it in, no thrown away batches (unless it's spoiled). The individual breweries will do all of that and more on their own brews because they are there day after day - not just that one time they happened to be able to brew.

I guess I'm saying you might be expecting too much. I won't disagree it would be nice if they discussed, did individual test batches, tweaked and then got together to produce a final batch - but I just don't think that's how these things come about. Maybe I'm wrong.

I still agree with you on the price, though - which is why a collaboration that is ambitious (and costly) that turns out... ok, I'd wish the breweries priced to it. I don't expect them to, but it'd be nice. And given that, maybe it'd be nice if the ambition were toned down if it meant higher costs/pass-through price to consumer. Maybe as an example look at SN Oktoberfest collaboration series?

 

I voted no, rarely are the results as good as the breweries own beers. There are expections like the Sierra Nevada Octoberfests.

 

In terms of stuff that gets distributed - I can’t think of anything that’s been equal to or better than what the component breweries are capable of.

Locally, Other Half has made a name for themselves by a) making a shit ton of IPAs (most recently of the NE/oat/lactose variety) and b) doing a shit load of collaborations, generally with like-minded breweries. Now some of the collabs don’t always work out, but many do - and they often do a great job of showcasing what the other brewery(ies) brings to the table. And one of the most recent (All Infinity Everything with Sand City, another NY brewery) examples is probably in my top three beers that OH has ever put out. But for the sake of this conversation - the fact these are non-distro beers from a single style specialty brewery partnering up with breweries that generally have similar strengths - I’m not sure it really counts.

 

Better than done on an individual basis? Super Friends
No better than those done on an individual basis? Almost every other collab. I've tried.

 

I've had some great Collabs, I approve, I've never had a bad one.

 

I took a pass on the poll because I don't expect collaborative beers to be better or more enjoyable to me than what either brewery creates on their own. Rather I expect them to be something different, that neither brewery would normally come up with if they had not done the collaborative beer.

I also don't think the purpose of a collaboration is to create something better than either brewey's line up, rather it seems to me that the purpose of a collaboration is to grow and extend the thinking and experience of both breweries by forcing them to rethink what and how they do things.

With a collaborative beer each brewrey can learn from the other(s) in the context of actually brewing a beer (rather than just talking about it over a beer). That way each brewery can return to brewing their own current line up and future beers with a new and/or different understanding of things about brewing that go beyond what they learned in the Brewing 101 textbook or on their own.

 

SN is probably one of the few who do pilot and test batches. And, not coincidentally, those Oktoberfests have had a real air of refinement about them.

 

I have had a few over the years and only a couple stood out as good. Most were average at best, so compared to their core items I would say no.

 

From the opposite end of this perspective. As a brewer, when we do collaborations we take a few things into consideration.

A: why?--why are we doing a collaboration instead of, say, making our own beer. Sometimes is based on a theme (take for example beer camp across america, and beer camp across the world--those collaborations were designed to highlight the breadth and depth of craft beer and it's influence in both the U.S. and across the world... Although I will admit, that some individual beers were more successful than others.)

B: what can we learn? --We try to work with partners for whom we have a great deal of respect, and by-and-large those partners are masters in their particular craft. The Oktoberfests are a great example. We're working with small-ish brewers who have very special techniques or experiences. We have learned A LOT from theme, and by-and-large the collaborations have helped us step-up our own lager brewing game. All of our lager beers have benefited from the knowledge gleaned, and the friendships made. Another example of that would be Life & Limb (the first two we did with Dogfish Head back in the day.) We learned a lot about high-concept beers (which we are not masters at) and also about the blending of flavors in very big and very dark beers. This collaboration pre-dated the birth of Narwhal and other big beers that are now part of the modern Sierra Nevada canon. I don;t know if those beers would have been as successful were it not for the original Life & Limb which helped open those doors for us.

For us, collaborations usually also have a charitable component (in that we don't think it's 100% fair to assume all of the brewing profits for two brewers work) so it's never a cash thing for us, it's about education and experience and a larger goal. What makes our beer better? What offers something back to craft beer as a whole?