Baltic Porter - Ale or Lager?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by HorseheadsHophead, Nov 10, 2017.

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  1. HorseheadsHophead

    HorseheadsHophead Grand Pooh-Bah (3,732) Sep 15, 2014 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Hey all. I have a question. While we've argued many times over whether the Kölsch is an ale or lager, my question is: is the Baltic Porter an ale or lager? Porters are ales, really, but I've always heard that the Baltic porter is lagered. So is still an ale, or is it a lager?
     
  2. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    It's made with lager yeast, fermented cool and lagered so therefore it's a lager
     
  3. scottakelly

    scottakelly Maven (1,487) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    If a beer goes though primary fermentation at a low temperature, and then secondary fermentation at an even lower temperature for an extended period of time, it's a lager.

    The difference is due more to process, not whether the yeast is bottom or top fermenting
     
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  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    As I understand it most Baltic Porters are brewed using lager yeast and I personally consider these beers to be lagers.

    There are some Baltic Porters that are brewed using ale yeast, Sinebrychoff Porter is one example. I personally view Sinebrychoff Porter as being an ale.

    Lager yeasts behave differently from ale yeasts so there will accordingly be differences.

    Cheers!
     
  5. MNAle

    MNAle Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    According to @marquis, a porter is a beer, not an ale, anyway, so the question is moot. :grin::wink:
     
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  6. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey

    My guess is that they could be either depending on how the brewer brews it.
     
  7. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    Some brewers do use "ale" yeasts but they are still fermented at a cooler temperature and then lagered so it's clearly a lager.
     
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  8. Hoppsbabo

    Hoppsbabo Pooh-Bah (2,053) Jan 29, 2012 England
    Pooh-Bah

    Porters are not ales. Just no.
     
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  9. Hoppsbabo

    Hoppsbabo Pooh-Bah (2,053) Jan 29, 2012 England
    Pooh-Bah

    He'd be right.
     
  10. HorseheadsHophead

    HorseheadsHophead Grand Pooh-Bah (3,732) Sep 15, 2014 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Hmm...they're listed as ales on BA. :neutral_face:
     
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  11. Bitterbill

    Bitterbill Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,036) Sep 14, 2002 Wyoming
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    "History: Traditional beer from countries bordering the Baltic Sea. Derived from English porters but influenced by Russian Imperial Stouts. Ingredients: Generally lager yeast (cold fermented if using ale yeast). Debittered chocolate or black malt."
     
  12. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Michael Jackson claimed to have created the term:
    Jackson's 1998 Beer (aka Ultimate Beer in the US) had a section entitled "Winter Warmers: Baltic Porters and Stouts", the text of which makes obvious he considers them basically the same "style". His last book, Beer- Eyewitness Companion, which he edited, says:
     
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  13. marquis

    marquis Pooh-Bah (2,313) Nov 20, 2005 England
    Pooh-Bah

    There has been an unfortunate assumption that because ales are top fermented this means that all top fermented beers are ales.All dogs are animals does not mean that all animals are dogs.
    Stouts and Kolsch are examples of top fermented beers which are not ales.Stouts because they are the product of a separate heritage and Kolsch because it is lagered making it a lager.
     
  14. HorseheadsHophead

    HorseheadsHophead Grand Pooh-Bah (3,732) Sep 15, 2014 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    So would it be accurate to say that cold-fermentation and cold-conditioning are the more relevant defining characteristics of lager?
     
  15. marquis

    marquis Pooh-Bah (2,313) Nov 20, 2005 England
    Pooh-Bah

    Certainly that is the German view and as such deserves to be respected.After all,lager means "store"
    The names ale,beer and lager were in use well before people knew about yeast.
     
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  16. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    I like to think of yeast like people. Some prefer hot and some prefer cold. We can all survive each temperature but we have a preference. To me a beer made with "lager"yeast at ale ferm temps is still an ale. Lagerering is a process and not a type of yeast to me.
     
  17. rgordon

    rgordon Pooh-Bah (2,701) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Carnegie Porter and Sinebrychoff Porter are two of my favorite dark beers through time. I haven't had any recent versions of Carnegie, but these Nordic porters are rich and "extracted", like perfectly "reduced" beverages. In fact, on occasion, years ago, the Carnegie Porter seemed to have intoxicating qualities separate from alcohol alone. Next on my list of favorite porters is Smuttynose Robust Porter. This is a trustworthy brew that I love, very affordable, and beautiful to the eye. I have never cared whether any one of them was a lager or an ale. Just damned good beer matters!
     
  18. ilikebeer03

    ilikebeer03 Pooh-Bah (2,616) Oct 17, 2012 Texas
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Depends on the yeast strain used in the brewing process. But traditionally, they’re lagers.
     
  19. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    We should step back from the strict idea that all beers are either ales or lagers... and the idea that there is "lager yeast" and "ale yeast."
     
  20. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Wait... If we did that the world would become a more complicated place and harder to understand....
     
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