Melanoidin Comparisons

Adding malts to imitate decoction is kind of a red herring.

 

Plus on the homebrew level you are adding quite a bit of HSA when decoction brewing (if that is a concern to you).

Cheers!

 

I have tried using melanoidin, munich, and vienna malts in various percentages for my pilsners and hefes using a single infusion mash versus step mashing or decoction. I have never had perfect success with any of these, those I would say melanoidin at a very low percentage (around 2%) comes closest. Vienna and Munich seem to be either too present or not present enough and change the base malt character too much when present.

 

What percentages have you tried with these malts? Have you tried just using one at a time (e.g., Pilsner & Vienna, Pilsner & Munich) or have they always been three way combinations (e.g., Pilsner, Vienna and Munich)?

Given all of the possible combinations/variables including malts from varying malting companies I suspect obtaining a Goldilocks zone would be challenging (and perhaps not always repeatable?).

Cheers!

 

This may seem like dumb question, but what in your opinion does a decoction bring to the beer?

 

Melanoidins? http://www.picobrewery.com/askarchive/melanoidin.htm

 

Alright everyone sit down. I am going to say somethings that shake you to your core.

Contrary to conventional homebrew wisdom, Germans LOVE cara and brumalts (Munich)! You know your favorite German Pilsner that one thats straw golden? Yup its got cara or brumalz in it. Let me post some examples of my cara laden German Beers, where I got recipes from the brewmasters.

Bitburger:

25% munich

Ayinger Pilsner Clone:

3% caramunich II

Weheinstephaner Pils Clone:

5% carahell

Weheinstephaner Original Clone:

8% carahell



Wait what?!?! But How?!? The short answer is most larger German brewhouses, do everything they can to mitigate HSA, HSA accelerates darkening ( think sliced apple), and when you stop all aspects of HSA you get up to 30% color reduction, and sugars don't get sickly sweet they become clean and body enhancing, enter caramalts. They can then flavor load these beers with cara or brumalz, thats why these beers are so light but pack the flavor punch. Many of these beers are rarely even decocted anymore, BECAUSE of the HSA. Most are simply doing a Hochkurz mash and calling it a day. I am not here to debate decoction ( I have an automated add on decoction vessel, I am no stranger to it). INFACT due to huskiness, and the slight astringency most folks ( by folks I am talking like Bitburger) who are decocting these days don't come to a boil even. So it shoots the melanoidin theory down there. Notice how I never mentioned Vienna? Right, its very rarely used. It's sole purpose is to correct over pale malts, and for festival beers. Now a days the larger breweries spec around 4ebc pilsner malts for a littler more umph, then are using cara or bru to get the colors and flavors they want so Vienna is rarely used in Germany. Austria, different story.

So yea, there is that.

 

Pilsner Urquell brews via a triple decoction process.

Cheers!

 

I have no idea if this is in response to my post or just a random post.

If in response to me, you must have missed the 5 times I mentioned German brewhouses, and last time I Czech'd PU isn't in Germany.

But it's interesting you did. Since this is a very extreme case of all that is HSA. The beer is way darker than it should be, and the residual candy like sweetness is a result of it. Shelf life dramatically suffers, not to mention the copious amounts of diacetyl (but thats a different story). I'm not saying its bad, but it's starkly different than its German cousins.

 

The OP stated “For my pilsners” with no mention of type of Pilsner. That is why I made this post. Germany is not the only country that produces Pilsners.

 

Thanks for your insight!

That may be why I prefaced my entire post with Germany.

 

Welcome.

 

Which ayinger pilsner is that a clone of?