Your Biggest Wrong Or Right Beer Predictions From Past

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by cavedave, Jan 3, 2018.

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  1. FonyBones

    FonyBones Devotee (380) Dec 19, 2015 New York

    I was wrong in predicting that there was no way people would continue to line up for hours in the hot sun/freezing cold/eves of holiday, etc. to pay $16-$20+ for 4 packs of beer they've never had before.

    I was right in predicting that I would be spending a lot more time getting reacquainted with classics that I can easily pick-up while grocery shopping.
     
  2. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,157) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    In Memoriam Pooh-Bah Trader

    Yes, yes you do, just close enough to me so I can enjoy both of them too! Very glad you were wrong with that prediction.
     
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  3. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    I don't make short-term predictions, so I haven't seen a lot being proven right or wrong as of yet.

    That quality will be the paramount indicator of a brewery's success, especially in reference to small, local breweries.

    This could go either way, IMO. I've seen a lot of local breweries both start out well and then improve on that or start out with a thud and improve greatly. I've also seen a lot of mediocre breweries continue to make mediocre beer and still have full taprooms. For the life of me, I don't understand that with the proliferation of choice out there, but such is life with the "new" and "local".

    That the quality of beer continues to improve and the availability of great beer continues to increase. Couldn't imagine that "we" would be here even 5 years ago, let alone 20. Craft beer is amazing and I've been happy to see and participate in a lot of its journey.
     
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  4. jhavs

    jhavs Grand Pooh-Bah (3,587) Apr 16, 2015 New York
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Which two? My mother-in-law lives in Nyack, so I'm there a few times a year
     
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  5. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Great thread, Dave!

    I'm not in the business of making predictions. However, I suppose I have one assumption about craft beer growth - one in which I am by no means alone. That assumption is, simply, that current craft beer growth will result in a number of sub-par local breweries capitalizing on the craft beer trend, but not producing quality beer.

    A reasonable prediction that follows from that assumption, of course, is that many of these breweries will collapse, especially if/when the bubble contracts - if not completely bursts.

    The assumption, at the very least, anecdotally seems to be holding true. The prediction will take time to mature.

    That same assumption leads to a related prediction: we will continue to see business struggles across the market, in particular for the widely distributed "big boys" of craft (Stone, Sierra Nevada, etc.). With so many local options - at the brewery, at the pub, and on the shelf, and often much fresher than the beers receiving wider distro (not an insignificant point when purchasing IPAs - more familiar brands are sitting on the shelves more and more.

    It seems our rate of supply growth is outpacing our rate of demand increase at this point. That may not have been true 10 years ago.

    Unfortunately, if my opening assumption is correct, then the combined glut of sub-par local options and aging shelf turd national offerings may result in turning off potential new craft consumers. If your first "craft" IPA is over a year old, or carries a massive diacetyl note, you may very well never try a second. This will not help the industry.

    So, I see a lot of economic challenges ahead for breweries. Expansion requires capital investment. If sales take a negative turn at the same time a brewery is investing more capital, that's a recipe for disaster - or selling out.
     
  6. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,157) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    In Memoriam Pooh-Bah Trader

    Pardon me if I sneak in, but I know these two quite well. They are Industrial Arts Brewery in Haverstraw and District 96 in New City. Both fantastic.
     
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  7. jhavs

    jhavs Grand Pooh-Bah (3,587) Apr 16, 2015 New York
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Nice, thanks! I've had a few Industrial Arts brews, I'll keep a look out for District 96 when I am in the area.
     
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  8. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    @JackHorzempa @cavedave @TongoRad

    Just to chime in on Heady Topper, and how it relates to predictions and developments in the beer world:

    I agree with all of you, to an extent. I think Dave is exactly right in that Heady revolutionized the IPA market, shifting it in a direction no one had foreseen. No, it's not an opaque juice bomb like Tree House et al produce, but the haziness - the ugliness, in a way - was shocking and paradigm-altering.

    Where I agree with Mike and Jack is that I don't think Heady was particularly un-bitter (not a word, I know). I think it had waves and waves of juicy hop flavors, and in that respect heralded the later NE style, but I think it still retained a healthy dose of bitterness.

    I don't quite know where I'd put it on the spectrum; I'd be tempted to put it pretty far to the right, toward NE IPAs. It's more like a proto-NE-IPA, though. Think of the parallels in music (Black Sabbath is to Septicflesh as Heady Topper is to Julius, perhaps).
     
  9. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,157) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    In Memoriam Pooh-Bah Trader

    D96 do crowlers now but will be canning come spring. Their tap room is as good as it gets, and they own Burger Loft next door, a great restaurant that serves their beer and also really amazing guest taps.
     
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  10. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,157) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    In Memoriam Pooh-Bah Trader

    Totally agree with what you say. I will add I have had about thirty gallons of Heady in the last 9 years, and some batches were some of the murkiest and chunkiest beers I have ever tasted,. I think the idea of using a flavorful yeast that is low flocculating and adds to a soft mouthfeel, a mixture of hops that creates a complex fruity taste and aroma, a malt base that is complex without being caramel, and a dry hopping regimen that creates a fruity aroma and haze in the beer is what Heady brought to the table, and the inevitable cavalcade of brewers trying to surpass it, as once brewers tried to equal and surpass Pliny.

    Now back to our regularly scheduled programming :grin:
     
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  11. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Someone asked what people see going forward. I can at least speak for Bierkeller...and maybe elucidate some larger trends?

    We will continue to build on our success. Lagers are catching on and getting lots of attention, so we are well-positioned there. For the coming year we have added tank capacity and expect nearly 100% growth (doubling what we did last year).

    We will continue to focus on quality and consistency. I have made extensive notes over the past year and am constantly working to improve processes -- without taking any shortcuts. We have a lab tech who has helped us throughout and will continue to help us improve.

    We will increase the frequency of our beer gardens and introduce a number of new aspects, including: gravity kegs served by Bayerischer Anstich; the freshest beer dispensed into those kegs right from the tanks and served within a couple of days; a crowler machine for take-homes from the taproom, with a nice 32 oz can inside, say, a branded Masskrug...all at a very fair price.

    We think that by providing an enhanced beer garden experience with even fresher, more authentic beer, we will keep ourselves separate from the pack and keep growing. A lot of these plans (quality, freshness, enhanced drinking experience) are probably national trends as well. We seem to have found our niche within those trends and are pretty happy with where we stand.

    Now...talk to me in 12 months and things may sound different, but for now that is what we are looking at.
     
  12. AZBeerDude72

    AZBeerDude72 Initiate (0) Jun 10, 2016 Arizona

    Love all those plans, that is so refreshing to hear and hope my local guys follow your thoughts.....
     
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  13. Leebo

    Leebo Initiate (0) Feb 7, 2013 Massachusetts

    As long as Sierra Nevada continues with the likes of quality (hoppy) beer for the ( in MA) $ 14-15.00 12 packs I think they will be OK. I get mine at 4 weeks old all the time. October fest, celebration, narwhal, bigfoot and hoptimum, all see case buys from me. But yes, to your point, competition in a crowded market will continue.
     
  14. TongoRad

    TongoRad Grand Pooh-Bah (3,884) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I was actually surprised that it took so long. Although, in a sense, Defiant (and Neill) have been at it for maybe a dozen years now. They just seem to do best with English and Belgian styles, and play to a different crowd. Still, I'd put their Tripel against any other one being made in the states.
     
  15. TongoRad

    TongoRad Grand Pooh-Bah (3,884) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I'd prefer to take appearance out of the equation, at least in terms of defining factors; and I would wager that I, or any one of us, would easily be able to pick Heady from a NEIPA (even the more bitter ones) while blindfolded. So that's where I'm coming from, there.

    As far as your parallels go, I'll gladly take Heady and Sabbath all day every day, myself, no matter where they fall on the spectrum :grin:.
     
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  16. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I don't disagree that you can tell Heady from a NEIPA blind. I will, however, say that I believe Heady tastes a lot closer to Sap, Green, et al, than it does to Pliny, which would seem to be a truer contemporary.

    Mouthfeel matters as well. HF and Alchemist really pioneered and popularized that incredibly smooth, luscious mouthfeel one expects from NEIPAs - and which absolutely did not exist in West Coast IPAs (or even in other world class Northeast contemporaries, like Gandhi Bot).

    I think appearance matters, too, in influencing the direction of the style. There was quite a backlash against the pulpy, opaque appearance when NEIPAs first hit the shelves. One of the simplest counterarguments was: "Yeah, but Heady is the highest rated beer in the world!"

    I suppose if one were to make predictions, you could look at some of the top rated beers of 2017, find the one thing (or perhaps two) that sets them apart, and say: this might be the new hotness! Chili stouts, for example - although that trend is obviously already riding high. In the case of NEIPAs, the mouthfeel, appearance, and flavor - if not the low bitterness - were all preceded by (and I would argue directly inspired by) Heady and HF.
     
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  17. Reef

    Reef Pooh-Bah (2,613) Dec 2, 2016 South Carolina
    Society Pooh-Bah

    [QUOTE="herrburgess, post: 5812189, member: 389328]
    We will increase the frequency of our beer gardens and introduce a number of new aspects, including: gravity kegs served by Bayerischer Anstich; the freshest beer dispensed into those kegs right from the tanks and served within a couple of days; a crowler machine for take-homes from the taproom, with a nice 32 oz can inside, say, a branded Masskrug...all at a very fair price
    [/QUOTE]

    All your venues were well-selected in 2017. Looking forward to your events this year. I would definitely buy those crowlers.
     
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  18. TrojanRB

    TrojanRB Grand Pooh-Bah (3,779) Jul 27, 2013 Texas
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I was wrong in thinking consumers wouldn’t support craft price creep.

    I still am shocked people routinely spend $13 for a 6 pack, or even $12 for 4x16 ounce cans
     
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  19. Mindsculptor

    Mindsculptor Initiate (0) Dec 6, 2013 Texas

    You probably never went out because the Blind Tiger is expensive, or it was when my mother worked there. On Fridays and Saturdays she'd bring home a gallon mason jar filled with $20s.

    But you're right about the rest of it.
     
  20. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I figured that the BA would shift their emphasis to "independent" above all else, and that ended up being the case (for now).

    Nonetheless, I was surprised by how many breweries decided to use the BA indy logo of a bottle that was all out of beer.

    I'm predicting that the blurry lines that people use to differentiate between west coast IPAs, east coast IPAs, and NE IPAs will remain incredibly blurry and this thread already seems to be bearing this out.
     
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