British-German beer style twins

Different pathways, indeed. But the idea is the same--that brewing traditions have naturally converged between different countries over time and ingredient availability. They have not diverged, as you suggested.

 

I would say that a better way to say that would be that brewing traditions did not evolve in isolation, but the types of beers that each of these traditions have made have become more varied within each tradition and when compared to other traditions there may be some similarity due to the aforementioned "cross-pollination".

Would that be fair?

 

I've had 2 Eisenbocks (Aventis and Tank Bender) and found both to be very similar to Belgian Quads, with different yeast notes. High ABV and dark fruits present.

Doppelbocks and Wee Heavy's are quite similar as well IMO.

 

Sure. You absolutely said that better. Happy?

 

It needs to be said again in these days when people are trying to tie down and define styles that these things started life simply as names.These were often used interchangeably , note the time when Bass referred to one of its brews as an IPA, a Pale Ale and a Bitter in the same conversation.Because an India Pale Ale is by definition also a Pale Ale and Bitter was what the customers called it in the pub.
The point is that though the names stay the same the actual beers they represent do not.That is true both in the UK and in Germany.Our grandfathers would not recognise these beers.

 

Sure. Thanks, man. You're awesome. Best friends forever?

 

A few more thoughts:
Riegele makes a pretty tasty Kellerbier these days which is, as they claim themselves, brewed with an "English ale yeast". It still tastes different from any english ale I've had. I only tried it in bottled form, but also the way the hops work is very "german".

What herrburgess said though, I can just confirm from my experience- gravity served franconian Kellerbier, especially the hoppy examples, come pretty close to british cask conditioned ales. I feel like even bottled St. Georgen Kellerbier can be close to something like Fuller's ESB,more so than Altbiers.

From what I gathered, the Kölsch we drink today, that pale,filtered,clean,crisp beer as the standard drink of cologne, was a post-WWII invention and is quite different from what was called "Kölsch" there beforehand -and was way more popular- ever wondered why there is a dortmunder-actien-bier-sign at Lommy in Köln Deutz, for instance? Well, because a lot of Dortmund Pils and Export used to be drunk then there. That just goes to show that also pretty recently, european styles that are by the us beer geek community,often percieved as "traditional",changed and evolved... and are still changing and evolving today.

 

Long trail ale makes an excellent Alt Bier, Vermont. It is called "Double Bag"

 

FYI, Double Bag is a double altbier and an amped up version of their flagship Long Trail Ale, a traditional [regular] altbier. I prefer the Long Trail Ale myself, but only by a little... both are good.

 

FYI No shit! That is why it is called "Double Bag" Also, it is absolutely not a hopped up version of their Long trail ale"

 

Your first post was unclear, so I was clarifying, not picking a fight. Go read it again with a fresh head and you'll see (or if you don't then discussion is pointless). I also did not say Double Bag was "hopped up," I said "amped up," but I guess I could have chosen more specific words, like double the malt.

 

Schwarzbier is nothing similar to a Stout. First, it's a Lager, not an ale. And the only similarity is the color. That's it!

 

Sounds like you're talking about an ESB. Both are hop-forward and both are similar color, dark brown.

 

Well, there is that roasted malt character in both styles, but yeah -- I can usually discern between one or the other.

 

I disagree. There's nothing roasty about a Schwarzbier.

 

Which ones are you drinking? It's the roasted malt character in Schwarzbier that distinguishes it from Munich Dunkel. Albeit, it's not as heavy with roast as a Stout or Porter, but it's definitely there.

 

Great essay on Schwarzbier by K. Florian Kemp from All About Beer, 2004.

"The German roasted barley is quite different from the product used in ales. German roast is often de-husked and produced from malted barley (Reinheitsgebot friendly), whereas roasted barley for ales is simply roasted, unmalted barley. The result is a softer roast flavor."

 

What about Baltic Porters then?

 

I am going to have to throw a flag here: 15 yards for taunting!!

Cheers!

 

It might just be my untutored palate, but I always find really bread-malty German pilseners somewhat similar to English pale ales (IPAs, ESBs). It's not a 1:1 relationship of course, but there can be similarities.

At the risk of getting pummeled by the stout facists, schwarzbiers sometimes taste a little like English stouts or English porters to me ... again, it's never a 1:1 to relationship and ironically some schwarzbiers (like Xingu) don't even taste like schwarzes -- they taste like English pales. Kostritzer tastes like a chocolatey porter to me, though, and it's awesome and I need to find some this weekend in Houston.