Question About Flameout Hop Addition

Where did you get the recipe.

 

It could mean to add the hops at flameout and do a 40 minute hop stand (before chilling). Or it could mean a 40 minute whirlpool, either while chilling or before chilling. Or it could mean to control the chill so that it takes about 40 minutes. Or some other permutation. All I can say for sure is that the recipe writer sucks at writing clear recipes.

 

You could post all of the kit's included ingredients here, and folks could suggest how to get the best beer out of them. Or put your faith in Local Store Guy, which is often a mistake. OTOH, he might be a brewing genius who just happens to be a poor communicator. It's possible.

 

Yes, 40 minute hop stand...bigger problem is getting that FG with that recipe...even with the M-44.

 

The actual method for the WP(whirlpool)/FO(flameout)/hop stand/hop burst/etc. is highly personal and equipment dependent. When there’s no further illumination, I always take recipes to mean: kill the heat, add hops, then immediately begin chilling. This can be a good enough method, depending on your chilling capabilities.

My personal method is to kill the heat, chill to the low 170°s, them add hops and whirlpool for 20 minutes. This makes for deliciously aromatic hoppy beers, whithout being overly bitter. I use an immersion chiller though. Back when I used a heat ex. (never again...) I used to load a hopback up with whole hops to get a similar effect.
More than one way to skin a cat and all...

 

I was going to ask, actually - how confident actually are people that they could look at a recipe on paper and say that it would be better if the flameout addition was moved to a whirlpool / hopstand / whatever or vice-versa? I've always assumed that it's one of those things that you consider when you're repeating and tweaking a recipe that you know well rather something to lose sleep over beforehand...

 

I don't think "better" is the right word. I certainly could give a good estimate of the differences between different techniques used, though.

 

I read the 40 minutes as being the time it takes to finish up, with them giving you that number so you can calculate your bitterness. As an example, if I add hops at flameout I then wait 5 minutes and begin recirculating for 5 minutes to create a whirlpool. Then it's a 15 minute rest to settle, and then 15 minutes to knock out - 40 minutes! Of course every system is different, and everyone's process different as well, but I'm guessing they just went with that as a basic amount of time to use.

 

The way the recipe is written, it sounds to me like a 40 minute hop stand with the flameout hops. I don't think I've ever done a hop stand that long. My guess would be that you might be losing aromatics as fast as you're gaining them at that point. So personally, I'd go shorter.

Other random thoughts on the recipe/kit supplier...

- In the future, avoid Liquid Malt Extract if you can. It stales very quickly. Dry Extract is better. And all grain is even better, if you continue brewing and want to go there.

- The recommended fermentation temperature range is for the wort temperature, not the ambient temperature. At peak fermentation, the wort can be several degrees (F) higher than the ambient temp.

 

Can you expand on why you think a longer hopstand would lose some hip aromatics? I’ve never heard that thought before.
TIA

 

Hop oils are volatile. More so at high temperatures. Longer times at higher temperatures will cause a loss of hop aromatics.

 

Two reasons...
- Ever smell the hop aroma during a hop stand/whirlpool? The stuff you can smell is what's leaving the wort. At some point, the balance between aromatics getting into the wort (from the hot steeping) and the aromatics escaping the wort ("flashing" off) has to tip in the other direction. I honestly don't know where that tipping point is, time wise. I assume it would be partially dependent on the amount of hops, the amounts and proportions of (types of) oils in those hops, how fast the temperature is coming down, etc.
- Hot Side Aeration. While the wort is still hot, it's susceptible to HSA.

I'll add though that a lot of pros do, in effect, very long hop stands. But those tend to be closed and are a function of their (in)abilty to cool wort quickly, a restriction home brewers don't necessarily have.

 

How would you describe it? (Genuinely interested - I think I've got an idea based on the science but I'm not sure how accurate it is...)

But I guess my point is that it's not a good/bad thing for a given style like avoiding infections or alcohol burn or diacetyl would be, but a matter of balance. And the exact hop flavour and aroma that you end up with from any given late hopping-schedule is going to vary a lot from brewer to brewer based on their process, their equipment, the source of their ingredients and so on, to the point that arguably any advice about late hop additions should come with an explicit caveat that doing this should get you into the right ballpark but you really need to experiment with it yourself if you want to get it perfect...

 

Right-o.

 

Yes, somewhere between a bittering addition with minimal flavor/aroma and dryhopping where virtually all aromatic compounds are preserved.