Refusing to fill a growler

There are even some breweries that will accept their growlers back, clean and sanitize them properly then offer you a discounted or even free growler for bringing them back. They’re making money back by being able to keep their purchases of cases down. Just ask, especially if you get a chance to speak to the brewery staff, it never hurts. It’s also not a thing that they advertise widely.

 

I remember a thread from my first run here, a solid 5 years ago. Someone crying that Shaun Hill wouldn't fill his his dirty, clear growler.

The overall sentiment was that Shaun worked hard to make a brilliant product, and this clown wanted to ruin it with his shitty growler.

I'd assume this is the sentiment still.

 

To be perfectly honest, though I certainly understand why people like and use growlers, if I ran a brewery, I would not fill growlers at all, dirty or clean. Crowlers I might be persuaded to be okay with, but not growlers, not ever. As far as the way most breweries do it with the dirty growler policy though I'm totally fine with it, I wouldn't want my product to be punished by someone else's laziness either.

 

Crowlers FTW,

 

Why crowlers over growlers? With growlers the customer at least brings them in and saves on storage. Getting good fills and keeping out oxygen isn't great with crowlers as well.

 

In Vermont this is how it is done at the bev. stores. If you bring a growler (clean, dirty, or otherwise) they will trade it out for you, or charge you for a new one, but won't refill the one you bring in.

 

Interesting bit of banter.
While, I suppose that's possible because bleach likes to eat things. I'm not buying that it would happen unless you used bleach directly without watering it back, and then left it in there to soak for long enough that the bleach itself could dry.
Re: Negligence.

 

When filled properly, a crowler can rival a bottle or can, let alone a growler. The fill is usually better and easier, due to the wide opening, vs a growler with its tapered neck that always causes foaming.

A crowler also has a legit double seam vs the leaky growler caps so it protects against o2 better. And, of course, let’s no light in.

The only advantage I see to growlers are their reusabity, but with their initial costs being 4-5 times a crowler, plus counting in the time to clean out growlers, it doesn’t seem worth it to me...

 

Crowlers are better for people who can't or won't do the minimal amount of maintenance required for growlers, but worse in just about every other way.

I love growlers. They do their job well and they're the least wasteful way to package beer. Yeah, a certain number of people will eventually try to bring back a dirty one and make a stink when the brewery won't refill it, and to those people... thoughts and prayers, I guess.

 

How are crowlers worse? I've only ever had one, but it was days later when I drank it and it still tasted like new.

 

I mean I haven't done any scientific testing or anything but 1. crowlers have a huge opening before they're sealed which I would assume is worse at keeping oxygen out between the CO2 purge and the fill, and 2. in my experience, crowlers don't hold up nearly as well once you get past a week or so.

Could be totally wrong about this, but those are my observations.

 

Gotta be something else going on there. For example, cans on canning lines have a larger opening than bottles on bottling lines yet, if both are properly purged and filled, cans protect against O2 longer than do bottles.

 

Well those screw on caps are definitely not great. The double seem isn't always great. I've received crowlers that didn't seem properly and leaked out the sides. But I'm sure growler tops gave similar issues. In regards to foam, you want that. Not executive amounts that waste product. But foaming over the lip promotes expulsion of oxygen.

To each their own. For what's its worth, I'm playing devils advocate. I like both for different reasons.

 

Couple of things: If you’ve got a leaky seam, or the crower goes bad after a few days, that’s either equipment or user error. The establishment needs to maintain the seamer, re-examine their SOPs, and/or retrain their bar staff. When filled properly, the size of the opening doesn’t really matter. Purge, fill from the bottom, cap on foam. Bam

How is oxidation get measured? First you’ve got your DO (Dissolved Oxygen) measured throughout the cellar process (after the yeast pitch) up until the beer is ready to be packaged. This is managed by good cellar technique and has nothing to do with packaging container.

Second, you have TPO (Total Packaged Oxygen), which is a measure of the DO plus O2 pickup during packaging. Bottles have some advantages here over cans i.e. they can be vacuumed, but these don’t usually translate to growlers. So there should be the same amount of TPO in growlers and crowlers. Keep in mind, beer growlered/crowlered off kegs has TWO TPOs, so brewpub beer from a serving tank is going to be superior.

Finally, you have O2 ingress, which is O2 pickup though the packages seal. Here’s where crowlers win. Properly seamed cans let in no O2. Even the best crown

 

They're supposed to be good for 2 weeks. I went that long with 3 year old Curmudgeon. (Got it on Friday, planned on drinking Sunday, but started feeling sick on Saturday.) It was still as good as expected.

If I'm going to drink it right away, a growler is fine. The places where I go (1 bottle shop, 2 breweries) overfill, cap, & rinse . Saves everything that goes into recycling the can. Not much , but it's something. I clean the growlers as soon as I'm done with them . A whole lot easier & better than waiting . Also give 'em a quick going over, rinse &/or clean, before I set off to the beer source .

 

Whoops! It cut off my post. Even the best crown cap let’s in O2 and growler caps are much much worse.
Tl;dr: excluding user or equipment failure, crowlers

 

Everyone’s got their own preferences, for me, it’s easy!

Portability: smaller and lighter > heavier and bigger. Winner: Crowler.
Accessiblity: dozens of places you can bring aluminum and not glass: beaches, parks, fests, camping, etc. Winner: Crowler.
Price: Crowler is cheaper up front, growler after 5 refills. People rarely own one growler, though. And many own dozens. Still. Winner: Growler.
Simplicity: Crowler - fill, drink, recycle. Growler -fill, drink, clean, refill. Some places don’t refill growlers. Some don’t refill other breweries’, some don’t refill certain types or sizes. Winner: Crowler.
Environment: the bottle vs can debate is ongoing. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Growlers, when refilled many times are very green, but aluminum when recycled is also ridiculously green. Too close to call. Draw.
Cleanliness: unless you are properly cleaning AND sanitizing your reuse growlers, there is probably a decent amount of bacteria in them. Factory cans and bottles are very clean. You could always buy a new growler every time, but that negates the price savings. Crowlers, you know what youve got. Winner: Crowler.
Stability: can seam>growler top. 100% UV protection>brown glass. Winner: Crowler.

Now, if you are the bar owner, there’s other things to factor. Initial cost of the seamer, maintainance, and the liability of having a spinning motor behind a busy bar, but for the drinker, it seems obvious

Crowlers win 5-1 in a rout!

 

A clean crowler fill is capped over foam, just like cans.

 

Yes, but in that situation, the only person responsible for fucking up the beer is the brewery, additionally, once it has been opened it is understood that it must be consumed then for best quality. In this case, the only one responsible for the beer being consumed as it was intended is the brewer, and the consumer will have a much harder time fucking up the product themselves and then blaming the brewery for their mistake, not that it's impossible, but surely it's more difficult.