When is it time?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Granitebeard, Mar 3, 2018.

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  1. Granitebeard

    Granitebeard Zealot (549) Aug 24, 2016 Maine

    When is it time to dump a batch of beer?

    History, back in August/September time frame I brewed two batches of the same beer. Same grains( Munich, two row, Veinna), same water, same equipment (two different frementors, but same bucket style), Yeast ordered from two different locations( Bohemian Lager, due to availability), everything cleaned with PBW and rinsed 3x with hot water, sanitizer is Starsan, and fermented in the same area. Brew schedule was the same, just a week apart. End volume and gravity were about equal. Yeast was ball park the same age, only difference was the second set of yeast was delivered on a 70 degree day and the ice pack was not very cool to the touch. The area where they were kept was 60-62 degrees except for one day(batch 1 day 11, batch two day 4) where it reached 64 degrees. Kegged batch 1, bottled batch 2, both finished within .002 of each other. Kegged was spot on and tasted great, Batch 2 was all band aid/rubbing alcohol.

    My well water is great, so no chlorine to worry about.

    Batch one is long gone. I gave out some samples of batch 2 and some people get the off flavors and some don't. My father seems to think it is bottle specific. I have had one bottle every 3 weeks to see if it has changed, and the one I had last night was nearly undrinkable to me. If anything it is getting worse. The bottles were new and cleaned/sanitized. I am at the point where I do not think I can suffer through the remaining 33 bottles. I feel it is time to dump them.

    This would be the first batch I ever dump and just want to make sure people agree that it is time.
     
    #1 Granitebeard, Mar 3, 2018
  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Can you please provide more specific on how you cleaned/sanitized the bottles. You made mention of "the bottles were new" so what was your motivation as regards cleaning?

    Cheers!
     
    #2 JackHorzempa, Mar 3, 2018
  3. Granitebeard

    Granitebeard Zealot (549) Aug 24, 2016 Maine

    Pretty much no matter what touches my beer I clean with PBW by soaking for 15 minutes or so. New bottles don't usually get bottle brushed, but where the store I get them tends to leave them uncovered, they get washed no matter what 'cause who knows how long they have been there.

    Then for sanitizing, I have a 5 gallon make up of Starsan, that gets regularly checked for PH. This is used to fill a spray bottle and then I give each bottle two sprays while my bottling bucket is being filled. Each bottle is also rotated to ensure the whole inside has become wet with sanitizer and is placed on a bottle drying rack.
     
    #3 Granitebeard, Mar 3, 2018
  4. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    PBW is a cleaner and may need to soak overnight and should always be mixed with hot/warm water...rinse very thoroughly with warm/hot water and then rinsed with an acid based sanitizer/cleaner, imho.
     
    #4 GreenKrusty101, Mar 3, 2018
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  5. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I do not utilize Star San as my sanitizer so I can't really comment here but hopefully others who use Star San to sanitize their bottles can provide their input as to whether what you are doing here is adequate.

    Hopefully you will respond to the comment/question from @GreenKrusty101 on your procedures on using PBW.

    Based upon the comment made of "My father seems to think it is bottle specific" this would seem to indicate that something is awry with your overall bottling process.

    Cheers!
     
    #5 JackHorzempa, Mar 3, 2018
  6. Granitebeard

    Granitebeard Zealot (549) Aug 24, 2016 Maine

    So perhaps I should have said " clean with pbw per the instructions on the side of the container then rinse 3x with hot water" in my original post?

    Also I would like to think cleaning in this method would be sufficient for new bottles as while I dislike the dust, there is never any signs of stuck on gross.

    And yes I realize that something somewhere went wrong. But if 5 months later it doesn't seem to be getting better, is it time to dump or wait a little longer?
     
    #6 Granitebeard, Mar 3, 2018
  7. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    It's time to dump. That's not an off flavor that will mellow out in my rather short brewing experience.
     
    #7 Prep8611, Mar 3, 2018
    GormBrewhouse and Granitebeard like this.
  8. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    My bottle cleaning:
    1) Hot water, oxyclean, scrub brush,
    2) Triple rinse, 3 full volumes of water. Always feels wasteful, but it works.
    3) 10 minute immersion in star san.
    4) Drip dry on bottle tree.

    If the off flavor is inconsistent, i.e., from bottle to botlle, it points to a bottling inconsistency, which presumably involves infection since it sounds like chlorine and chloramine are not present in your brewhouse. My experience with bottle infections has been more of what I now suspect is a wild yeast / Sach. diastaticus infection, in which the bottles hyperattenuate and gushers develop.

    If you like the beer, in spite of the band aids, drink fast. But if you are not liking it, you should dump. Dumping a beer sucks. Dumping a beer that you have bottled sucks more, because there is that much more time invested. But drinking a beer that you do not enjoy sucks even more, because it kills your enthusiasm for the hobby. Dump. Clean. Sanitize. Get on horse and brew again,
     
    #8 pweis909, Mar 3, 2018
    Granitebeard likes this.
  9. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    Time to go, better beer in the future
     
    #9 GormBrewhouse, Mar 4, 2018
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  10. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,995) Jul 5, 2010 Virginia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Time to dump.
     
    #10 MrOH, Mar 4, 2018
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  11. csurowiec

    csurowiec Initiate (0) Mar 7, 2010 Maryland

    That is an off flavor that will not age away. Life is too short to drink beer that isn’t tasty. Dump it and move on.
     
    #11 csurowiec, Mar 4, 2018
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  12. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Dump it, but keep some bottles for slug bait if you have a vegetable garden or flower beds. :slight_smile:
     
    #12 PapaGoose03, Mar 4, 2018
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  13. JohnnyChicago

    JohnnyChicago Initiate (0) Sep 3, 2010 Illinois

    I’ve dumped one batch of beer in many years of homebrewing.
    Before kettle souring was the norm, sour mashes were pretty common. Well, I had sour mashed about 10 beers with good results and had no fear in undertaking the 11th. 16 hours in and something smelled very wrong. Diaper, BO, vomit, and shit aromas were rising from the sour mash. I nervously lautered and boiled, hoping the putrid smell would subside.

    Fermentation and conditioning passed and i sipped the kegged beer. It was disgusting. I tried to bubble co2 through it in an attempt to blow off the fouler flavors and...nothing.
    It was at that moment that I realized that I had to drainpour 10gal. of homebrew.

    It was a sad but certain realization and I actually dumped all 10 gal. into the toilet because...what did my sink ever do to deserve that? There was a bit of sick satisfaction in showing that batch, “oh you thought you could go nasty? I hope you like your watery grave!

    Long story short: if the beer is bad. Dump it. And dump it down the toilet. It’ll make the next batch think twice about sucking! :grin:
     
    #13 JohnnyChicago, Mar 4, 2018
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  14. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    I've dumped 7 batches so far. Shit happens! Don't worry about it, and have a nice beer.
     
    #14 GormBrewhouse, Mar 4, 2018
  15. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Savant (1,208) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    I've dumped 1 due to contamination. Dumped a few cause they weren't beers I could consider average and I don't waste calories on below average beer
     
    #15 Prep8611, Mar 4, 2018
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  16. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Agreed.

    These phenols will not age out.

    Curiously, though, I wonder where it went wrong? Shared equipment/cross contamination?

    @Granitebeard, do you brew any beers using brett?
     
    #16 EvenMoreJesus, Mar 4, 2018
  17. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Maven (1,374) May 2, 2006 Utah

    Another vote for dumping. Life is too short to drink bad beer.

    Band-aid flavor implies an infection. I'd probably break out the Chlorox and sanitize everything in sight. And consider throwing out old plastic tubing, etc. Maybe time for new buckets?

    Cheers!
     
    #17 utahbeerdude, Mar 4, 2018
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  18. Granitebeard

    Granitebeard Zealot (549) Aug 24, 2016 Maine

    Personally, I will never try to brew a beer to be sour or funky (excluding maybe a very tame Norwegian farmhouse). I just can't handle sour beer (or any wine for that matter).

    To this though, this beer was in secondary in my oldest brew bucket, 11 years old now. When I went to use it again I feared it might have some kind of bug in it, so I checked for scratches, and gave it an above and beyond cleaning the day before using it. I used this bucket again when I brewed a Belgian Dark Strong, so know some strong smells would shine at transfer to secondary. I haven't checked in on it, but will soon as it is almost time to package. If I get the same flavor, I will literally kick the bucket, and probably the one that is doing the secondary currently.
     
    #18 Granitebeard, Mar 4, 2018
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  19. Bryan12345

    Bryan12345 Initiate (0) Mar 17, 2016 Texas

    Consider mixing half a bottle of your beer with half a can of Miller Lite. I have only ever dumped one batch...a maple bacon coffee porter in which the bacon fat literally made me sick after each bottle.
     
    #19 Bryan12345, Mar 4, 2018
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  20. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    Ain't that the worst. Counting calories when considering beer drinking,,,,, and yes so do i
     
    #20 GormBrewhouse, Mar 4, 2018
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