Sixpoint: Alpenflo Helles Lager

Ouch, firing shots.

 

At who?

 

https://www.beeradvocate.com/commun...ks-to-disrupt-the-light-beer-category.564110/

Cheers!

 

Shane, how does the price of adjuncts compare to North American 2/6-row malt? Given that you need to conduct a cereal mash to brew with 'raw' materials (e.g., corn grits) how does the overall brewing costs compare?

Cheers!

@masterob8

P.S. I just recently brewed a CAP and I can report that I paid significantly more for Flake Maize per lb. than I did for Rahr 6-row Pale Malt.

 

I've been on a major Lager kick lately and cycling through the wonderful local Helles options I am fortunate to have all around me and can't wait to add something new into the mix.

 

I will be interested in hearing your thoughts about this beer vs. Sly Fox Helles Golden Lager, Stoudts Gold, etc.

Cheers!

 

I don't think that was the mistake he was making. Think he had the same response as me to your response to Davepoolesque's question, where you skirted answering his questions about how the unanticipated additional lagering time this batch received would affect future batches.

 

For sure! I have been drinking them so ready for the taste taste.

 

There are no shots fired, if that is what you are claiming. We are not aiming to disrupt the light beer category, and never was that intent expressed in any of our messaging for this particular beer. It is important to distinguish that our goal was never to make a craft version of Miller Lite, Bud Light, Coors Light, or any other macro adjunct lager.

We appreciate any craft brewer who does try to take a stab at the light beer category and do it really well, but the point here is that is not what the intent is with the Alpenflo, and its important not to conflate the two objectives.

cheers

 

Sure, but no one on this thread was confusing the two objectives between two radically different beers. You brought it into the thread in a negative lite. But that's fine - no hard feelings. Happy Brewing!

 

I initially thought @Sixpoint was referring to Founders and their new AAL "Solid Gold" lager. I had no idea about that possible reference until @JackHorzempa posted that link

Also, it's definitely "shots fired" @masterob8 I've never heard anyone say "oh damn, firing shots!!"

 

Haha. True! Grammar isn't amongst my top 3 skills. Haha.

 

Well... It has arrived here in Cleveland! @Sixpoint

Picked up my pack... Will try one soon here tonight! Report back when I do.

 

Ok, so I am just finishing off my first pint of this stuff after a nice long walk with the dog... This exceeded my already high expectations! Extremely refreshing, crisp. Wonderful malt and hop balance. Clarity is stunning. Tomorrow I plan to pour just shy of three of these in a 1L stein and enjoy! Lol

@Sixpoint .... This will be in my fridge all summer long. Mark my words. This is a stunner of a Helles. Well done!! (Again).

 

Woah, was the phrase "negative lite" intentional? If it was, that was one hell of a play on words. You could have written "negative light" but your choice there was pretty cool. Nice one.

I wholeheartedly understand where you are coming from, but sincerely, that is not our angle at all. We needed to set the record straight because our stakeholders (distributors, retailers, and even customers) were beginning to question whether or not our intention with this beer was to go after Budweiser, Miller, Coors, and any other major lager producer in this country. They also wanted to know whether or not value pricing was a key objective here, and that actually was discussed on this thread and others prior to your comment. The reason why they are asking us in greater frequency is because of the multiple streams of press releases in the past week alone describing how craft brewers are now producing adjunct lagers at value pricing to compete alongside the big boys. Craft brewers are explicitly stating they are now going after macro in the one category they have owned since the repeal of Prohibition! This is unprecedented.

However, our intent was never to take on the big brewers, compete on price, and disrupt/take a bite out of that market. Our goal is actually to help elevate/expand an entirely new realm of the lager market altogether, as we feel it has been rather one-dimensional. Yes, craft had its Vienna Lagers over the years, and the Pils has risen as a trending style nowadays. But beyond that, it has remained pretty static. In this specific regard, I think we are aligned in our goals - we both want to expand the craft lager universe. The key difference is we are taking different pathways.

We hope and aspire that the Alpenflo will actually sit amongst the craft beer section in stores, and be viewed as a top-tier representation of that style. We also hope that the American craft beer drinker will grow to appreciate the lager style and keep it in the same esteem as any fine IPA or barrel-aged stout. As a fellow brewer, I'm confident that you know consistently brewing a world-class lager is just as hard as brewing any IPA or Stout, if not harder. But its time for the customer to also know that, as the perception still remains that lager is a second-class, cheaper alternative (of course, some of the beer advocates on this site know better, but they do not represent the majority of consumers).

We applaud the f*ck out of you. Taking the large brewers head-on in the adjunct lager category is one of the most brazen moves a brewer could make, and I'm personally rooting for you and I can assure you other members of our team and the craft community at large is also in your corner. This is no easy task - these brewers have enormous scale and clout with wholesalers that give them a tremendous, almost insurmountable advantage. If your team pulls this off, it will be one of the great stories that came out of craft beer. Epic!

On a closing note, I was just chatting with Eric Bachli the other day about doing a visit to Night Shift. He respects the hell out of you, and while I've thoroughly enjoyed several of your beers (Whirlpool is my personal favorite) I still have never been to your facility. I'd love to come up and visit with Eric and a few others from our staff, if you'd graciously host us.

cheers Rob

 

Great question Jack, but I would expect no less from a seasoned homebrewer and lagerphile. Is that even a word? I just made it up.

Yes, rice and/or corn is a lot cheaper alternative to both 6-row and 2-row barley, although 6-row is almost always cheaper than 2-row. There is also the option for brewers to use rice syrups and corn syrups, and multiple AAL brewers do this. Some even use HFCS, which is crazy. It usually comes in on tankers/rail cars, and pumped right into a holding tank and then the kettle en route to the fermenter. As you can imagine, its a very efficient process.

Adjunct grains that require a cereal mash will be more expensive, but the raw cost of corn or rice vs. barley is so wildly divergent on a large scale that even with a mash, it still represents a significant savings. I cannot comment on what its like on a homebrewing scale, as I have not made one in many years, but I'll take your word for it.

If these large brewers actually switched to 100% 2-row barley, the price of their beer would naturally go up. Perhaps our economy would adjust to grow less corn and rice and more barley, but that is unlikely because corn and rice are such large commodities in a wide variety of industries beyond beer. The soft drink industry is very dependent upon HFCS, and a lot of rice is exported as a major food staple worldwide. Japan, for instance, sustains its relatively large population by importing a large amount of cereal grains.

@Jacobier10 @TongoRad @ESHBG @Squire

One of the most satisfying things is to see people who truly appreciate a good lager speak highly of a beer that our team has worked so hard for so long on. People like @ecpho and Jack Horzempa and others are very meticulous and scrutinizing in their appreciation of these styles, and if we can earn yours and their respect and appreciation, its a great start. Come on down to one of our can releases and let's crush a liter together.

Prost!

 

In my honest opinion, mission accomplished (at least the top-tier representation, portion).

Hopefully in time, American drinkers will appreciate these styles more and more. A beer so delicate, yet so full of flavor and balance is far more impressive than another run of the mill IPA or Imperial Stout anymore. Those are easy enough to find on the shelf by dozens of breweries… But try to find an excellent, fresh Helles or Dunkel for example? Good luck…!

 

Words have to start somewhere.

Cheers to your wordsmith skills!!

 

I'm not much of a joiner but if anybody wants to start a lagerphile club . . .