Splinter: Craft Beer's Moral High Ground Doesn't Apply To Its Workers

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by LambicPentameter, May 18, 2018.

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  1. LambicPentameter

    LambicPentameter Initiate (0) Aug 29, 2012 Nebraska

    https://splinternews.com/craft-beer...80180#nbw3s0g8m7wo2xplrqwc4j0sa.3obgvqm6wnfod

    Fair warning: this is a hefty read. But what it lacks in brevity, it makes up for in nuance (in spite of the sensationalist headline).

    I mainly found it interesting because of the tendency around here to talk about the terrible business practices of Big Beer, but I think often times, people are repeating talking points that they've heard, rather than truly understanding how the business practices of Big Beer compare to the segment of craft brewers.

    Enter labor practices. From the article:

    "The International Brotherhood of Teamsters represents about 5,000 brewery workers at various corporate breweries around the country, including nearly all of those owned by Anheuser-Busch InBev"

    Compare that to the fact that most craft brewery jobs are non-unionized.

    This is one element of business where Big Beer is demonstrably better--or at least more consistent--than their craft beer brethren. Too often, I think labor shortcomings are rationalized by the fact that opening a small brewery is hard, with low margins. And outside of being largely non-unionized, workers are paid less and receive less benefits. In spite of the fact that craft beer is, on balance, more expensive than the stuff that Big Beer produces.

    I'll close my comment by pointing out that if I had to choose between anti-competitive practices and unfair labor practices being more important, I'd favor labor practices everytime. This doesn't absolve Big Beer from their tactics--anti-trust laws are important and in place for a reason. But it does illustrate that I think with unfair labor practices, the victims are much more immediate and directly impacted than the victims of anti-competitive practices.
     
  2. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    This is of course based on the premise that being unionized somehow is beneficial to a worker.
     
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  3. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Which, historically and with a few exceptions, has been the case.
     
  4. LambicPentameter

    LambicPentameter Initiate (0) Aug 29, 2012 Nebraska

    I know there are people who have no love for unions, but I can't say I've seen an argument based on the premise that unions are bad for the workers.

    On balance, unions improve wages and benefits, help reduce working hours and improve workplace safety.
     
  5. EnronCFO

    EnronCFO Pooh-Bah (2,193) Mar 29, 2007 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    There's a lot of BS in that article. I look at this way: if I sign on to brew at a start-up 10 barrel brewery being run out of a former auto garage, I should expect a pretty modest wage and minimal benefits since margins are likely razor thin, if there at all, early on. However, if that brewery blows up and has lines out the door to buy cans every weekend, then you as the brewer should share in that success. But, that's something that should've been discussed when you joined. Simply asking "How do I get to share in the success of this place?" during the hiring process can help establish the right framework and relationship from the start. If the brewery expands and buys a fancy Braukon set-up and custom czech draft system, but you're still without a 401k or decent health insurance, you have a right to be pissed.

    I think most of the breweries around the Boston area that have achieved success are known to treat their employees fairly. But I don't know if that's true everywhere.
     
  6. AZBeerDude72

    AZBeerDude72 Initiate (0) Jun 10, 2016 Arizona

    Sounds like a union propaganda letter to me.

    Small breweries can hardly survive now, if people think that telling them they have to hire union workers at 4x the pay is the answer well then you basically will close the doors on every small brewery because they could not afford the labor.

    Working long hours, since when is this a bad thing to do what you love? Last time I checked it was sort of the norm when you create a business, with that comes long hard hours and work. I got from the article this sense of why do I have to work over 40? Well you don't, go get a different job then.

    I enjoyed the comparison of pay for a person at big beer verse a small brewery? LOL of course your not going to get paid 100,000 bucks working at some small outfit, they cannot afford that. Comparing yourself to someone working at a massive corporation is just inaccurate to say the least.

    Bottom line people think unions somehow are the solution but they fail to realize that someone has to pay for that union pay, its the end user and business owners. Sorry but I don't see people paying $40.00 a four pack in order to fund the union.

    Cheers
     
  7. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I enjoyed reading that article. A couple of things jumped out to me:

    “Brewing beer commercially can be hard, thankless work. “It’s a back-breaking job, lifting a hundred 50-pound bags” of ingredients and carrying them up stairs to be added to the mash, Timms says. And it can be dangerous: “You’re dealing with boiling liquids and pretty harsh chemicals that can definitely injury you…It’s not a safe job by any means.” At small breweries, where OSHA visits are unusual and procedures are unstandardized, the “outlook towards safety” can be “laissez-faire” verging on “lackadaisical,” he says.”

    With 6000+ small, craft breweries out there I would not be surprised that a significant number of them have less than optimum safety programs in place; this aspect might be viewed as an unnecessary cost. Sorta like insurance where you obtain no return but all expense if nothing goes wrong.

    “According to an internal survey Watson shared with me, among U.S. craft brewers producing 1,000 barrels or less annually —which is about three-quarters of firms— no more than 25 percent offer some sort of healthcare benefits.”

    For the sake of discussion let’s say there are 6,000 craft breweries. Then 75% of that number is 4,500 craft breweries and 75% of them (which is 3,375) offer no healthcare benefits. So, over half of the craft breweries offer no healthcare benefits. That is very telling.

    In comparison the BMC type breweries do indeed treat their employees better.

    Cheers!
     
  8. LambicPentameter

    LambicPentameter Initiate (0) Aug 29, 2012 Nebraska

    Is this satire?

    Suggesting that companies--no matter their size--should compensate their workers fairly is a "union propaganda letter". GTFO.

    I'm sorry, but if you can't afford fair compensation for your workers, then you can't afford to be in business. It is not workers' responsibility to subsidize new brewery owners. Unfortunately, they often do because people love the hobby, similar to how people would break into the music industry (or fashion industry, etc) by working for peanuts or less.

    There is also no objection to working long hours. My point is that people should be compensated for that work. It's one thing if you are an owner who is personally vested in the long-term success of the company. I'm not talking about owners. I'm talking about employees who aren't likely getting much in the way of stock options or similar payouts for brewery success at ANY small craft brewer.
     
  9. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey

    At least in NJ most of the breweries and brew pubs are family owned and operated. Many of folks who work in them are members of the family. If you aren't a member you are not going to get well paid and if you are a member you still might not be well paid,
     
  10. AZBeerDude72

    AZBeerDude72 Initiate (0) Jun 10, 2016 Arizona

    I believe that any business has to abide by the states minimum wage laws. With that said where is the crime? If you freely go to work for a brewery who says your rate of pay is $X then that is your decision. If the rate of pay is too low then my advice is to not work for them. I am totally confused as to the demand for a certain wage? The business owner posts the positions open and their rate of pay, that is what he can afford.

    Correct it is not, they are working on a volunteer basis. They are not obligated to remain, if they feel there is no reward for their work or growth they are free to leave and pursue another job with another company. When they hired on were they told they get ownership in the brewery. I am not aware of too many Mom and Pop breweries that offer people stock rights.

    I read your reply and it feels as if your speaking about large corporations not paying their people well. We are speaking about small companies with massive overhead to operate and very little left as it is. Do you think that a brewery is sitting on millions of dollars and just screwing their people over, lol that is fiction.

    Edit: I would be willing to bet most of the mature breweries that have success do compensate their people who stuck with them and can pay more out to everyone. Just my 2 cents.
     
    #10 AZBeerDude72, May 18, 2018
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
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  11. sportscrazed2

    sportscrazed2 Pooh-Bah (2,360) Mar 29, 2010 American Samoa
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I love unions. I pay $17 a week for good insurance and when I call in sick on monday they aren't gonna fire me
     
  12. AZBeerDude72

    AZBeerDude72 Initiate (0) Jun 10, 2016 Arizona

    Exactly, the OP seems to think these 6,000 + Craft Breweries are these large corporations that are screwing their people over. LOL most of them are probably not even paying themselves in the beginning to keep the doors open. Guess they should stop and start paying their servers $48 bucks an hour plus dues and benefits. LOL
    We are talking apples to oranges here.
     
  13. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    I doubt many unionized breweries are having "bottling parties" where patrons are encouraged to donate 8 - 10 hours of their time in return for 2 bottles of beer and a light lunch.
     
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  14. AZBeerDude72

    AZBeerDude72 Initiate (0) Jun 10, 2016 Arizona

    Heck no. Those hours are overtime/double time if you worked your 40. LOL Plus they still want those 2 bottles as a perk. :stuck_out_tongue:
     
  15. AZBeerDude72

    AZBeerDude72 Initiate (0) Jun 10, 2016 Arizona

    So you know I am not against people earning a great wage. What I am saying is that you cannot force companies to pay more just because. Working for a brewery is probably not going to be your career, most people do it when young and move on. If they want to command $80,000-$100,000 a year then they need the skills and go work for a large corporation. They are never going to get that working down the street at Joe's Brewery, if they do they are one of the very few lucky souls who scored a amazing job.
     
  16. champ103

    champ103 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,296) Sep 3, 2007 Texas
    Society Pooh-Bah

    This seems to torpedo Mr Timms complaints a little, as well as counters some of the general themes of the article:

    (In an email, Falling Sky owner Rob Cohen notes that as an employee, Timms qualified for—but declined—healthcare, dental, and vision benefits through the company. Cohen also says Falling Sky offers an IRA match, two weeks of PTO, and “more sick leave than is required.”)
     
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  17. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Best bit of the article here. Craft consumers must like getting the wool pulled over their eyes.

    Still, beyond these individual concerns lies an existential one: To rationalize the higher prices their beer commands at market, craft breweries across the country actively claim the moral high ground. This claim is two-pronged: that craft beer tastes better than its counterparts because it’s made with higher-quality ingredients and more care, and that craft breweries are innately “better”—more wholesome, more ethical, more socially responsible—than corporate ones.

    This is the pitch across craft culture, and it tends to work. Customers
    like to feel as though their purchases of food and drink products they enjoy are doing good, too. Craft, artisanal, local: “There are just these terms that resonate with the consumer in this feel-good way,” says Margaret Gray, an associate professor of political science at Adelphi University who authored Labor and the Locavore, a 2014 book on worker conditions in the local food economy of New York’s Hudson Valley. “There are all sorts of great reasons why we should feel good about craft beer production,” she says, pointing to the premise of quality and the promise of community building. “But to celebrate it while neglecting labor conditions is highly problematic.”
     
  18. anfield86

    anfield86 Pooh-Bah (2,606) Nov 21, 2006 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    **RANT WARNING**

    It really depends on the size of the business and the financial situation of the company. The problem is that unions are not always able to scale to the size of the business. I am a part-owner of a small manufacturing business in the healthcare industry (less than 10 employees). If all of our workers decided to unionize and walk out we would be out of business at the very least temporarily, closed for good at worst. For various reasons (inherited debt, rising costs of goods & materials, lower reimbursement for goods due to industry shakeups, etc.), our margins are thinner than a toothpick

    For example cannot afford healthcare due to the high expenses of the plans for a business of our size (last we checked last year it cost us anywhere between $5,500-$8k per month), we cannot afford 401k matching (we do offer 401k however), etc. We offer dental & vision, we give monthly performance bonuses, we give paid time off. We do the best we can as a small company with almost no profit margins. We do things that companies with unions cannot do, like let people leave early just because we want to (CBAs usually require a strict labor schedule even if you want to close early). If you do your best with what you've got (as an owner) then employees will generally be happy with their jobs.

    ============

    Anecdote: I majored in Computer Networking in college (IT stuff). As an intern I was doing computer work for a medium sized electric company on the south shore, MA. Anyway, one of the printers at the police station ran out of toner. The lady who usually handles the printers was out sick, so I quickly replaced the cartridge so they can continue working. Problem solved I figured.

    I come in the next day and there was a team of suits waiting for me in the conference room. Apparently changing toner cartridges was in her job description per the CBA and the fact that I touched the printer made me in violation of the CBA and her job security. I was given a harsher-than-necessary verbal warning, all just because I wanted to help out and get the job done. This is just one example of how a union could be bad for business. So we're not supposed to work because you're out sick? Wow.
    ============

    TL;DR unions aren't the solution for all companies regardless of size. It very much depends on the size. The "right to work" is an essential component of capitalism (though flawed, it does seems to have worked in this country so far).

    Except that the article you linked explicitly mentions unions as the solution to the problem. Not once in the article did they offer any alternative solutions like having an industry-wide consortium like the Brewers Assocation have any influence on fair wages, workers safety, etc. No need to tell @AZBeerDude72 to "get the fuck out" because he disagrees with the tone of the article (plus, Splinter isn't even a real news source anyway; it's a biased rag of a blog owned [last i checked] by Gawker media, same group who run that quasi-racist site The Root & that shitty site known as Jezebel).

    Well that is the whole point of a free market economy. If you don't want to work because they doll out shitty pay then go find another job or apply for a loan or a grant and do your own thing. Likewise you should be able to get fired if you do a shitty job, show up late, abuse PTO, etc. You should never be entitled to a job (even me as an owner, I am not entilted to this busienss. if it fails it is my fault and mine alone).

    Any ethically run business should compensate employees who work hard in some way, shape or form whether it be a giant bonus at the end of the year or extra time off or whatever. It's one thing for a megacorp like BMC or even a medium sized business (100+ employees) to have to have some kind of labor union requirement but to require unions for companies that are only 10-20 people in size is ridiculous.

    TL;DR (again!!) If you don't like it, quit and find the right fit. It's a free market. There are unfair business practices in all industries and it is up to everyone to hold them responsible. Don't buy the products, don't work for them, call them out, etc.. There is room for unions in all industries but that does not mean they should be the golden standard on how businesses should be operated.
     
    #18 anfield86, May 18, 2018
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
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  19. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    More goodness:

    The flip side is that there’s a seemingly endless supply of would-be brewers who want their shot at that dream job. “There’s always an okay or decent homebrewer out there willing to work the exact same job for less money and more beer,” Garves says. It’s not uncommon for fans of a particular craft brewery to volunteer to work for free. This can make the job feel less secure for those who actually do it, and contribute to a chilling effect on organizing. “Why talk unions if they could replace you for significantly less?” Garves points out.
     
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  20. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    You know that not everyone is cut out to be a business owner, right?

    You're living in a fantasy world, brother. Do you know how many people get into an industry that promises to be a goldmine, but after 4 - 8 years of post-secondary education, they end up making far less than they were told that they would make AND they are in 6 figures of debt to boot?
     
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