Splinter: Craft Beer's Moral High Ground Doesn't Apply To Its Workers

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by LambicPentameter, May 18, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Yup.

    I expressed a similar sentiment in post #134:

    As it comes to brewery worker safety we collectively should all "Stop screwing around".

    Cheers!
     
  2. chrisjws

    chrisjws Grand Pooh-Bah (3,302) Dec 3, 2014 California
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Most brewery founders go years or even close to a decade before taking a salary. Often their significant others and family work without pay too. Acting like they're raking in cash when they're usually working heavy hours just to try to keep the business open is ridiculous.

    Despite higher prices this is not a lucrative business to be in. If you want to make any money, honestly starting a brewery is the last thing you should do. Not so say you can't succeed, it's a pretty long-shot almost anywhere with anyone.

    Despite this, a significant number of breweries I know go out of their way to pay what is considered a living wage in their locality. Not all, and honestly it's easy to understand why they can't or are reluctant to pay more when they're barely solvent.

    I think larger ones like Bells, Founders, Stone, etc should be looked at and criticized in this manner, but the medium to small guys are doing the best they can do in most cases.

    Also, this seems to assume the only arrangement under which a worker could do well is if they're unionized.
     
    IceAce likes this.
  3. IceAce

    IceAce Pooh-Bah (2,274) Jan 8, 2004 California
    Pooh-Bah

    Question: “How do you make a million dollars in today’s Craft Beer environment?”


    Answer: “Start with two million dollars.”
     
    Lahey likes this.
  4. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    I’m under the impression the Bells pays a decent wage with benefits for a brewery in MI. Do you know something I don’t?
     
    LambicPentameter likes this.
  5. chrisjws

    chrisjws Grand Pooh-Bah (3,302) Dec 3, 2014 California
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    No, just using them as an example. They represent the size of brewery where I'd say that these types of criticisms are entirely fair if applicable. I don't think to be small means you're off the hook entirely, but acting as though small breweries are screwing their employees and raking it in is out of touch with reality.

    I can list off many breweries that many would consider extremely successful that took many years just to start turning a profit. I'm sure there are a few counterexamples, but the vast majority live in the reality where the massive capital investment upfront weighs them down for a long time.
     
  6. CheapHysterics

    CheapHysterics Initiate (0) Apr 1, 2009 Pennsylvania

    I think unions are still doing good things with regard to workplace safety and fair wages/benefits, and I think there ought to be a whole lot more of them. It would make our middle class a lot bigger and stronger which would be better for the country as a whole. Admittedly, it would not be better for the super rich, but it's not like they'd end up destitute either.

    Who can't be fired? The idea that union members can't be fired is pure nonsense.

    Unions do help to ensure a worker isn't fired unjustly. Most of the time when a bad employee isn't fired, the management has no one but themselves to blame because they were too incompetent or lazy to keep a proper paper trail or do proper performance reviews, or even too uniformed to know who their good and bad employees are. I've actually seen this last one a lot, and it was the most frustrating.
    Every union job I've had, most of the members wanted the crappy employees to be fired because they made everyone else and the union as a whole look bad.
     
  7. LambicPentameter

    LambicPentameter Initiate (0) Aug 29, 2012 Nebraska

    I don't think anyone on this thread is under the illusion that brewers are printing money. In fact, speaking for myself, I'm well aware that opening a brewery is an EXTREMELY low margin business and those low margins aren't going to get any better with 6,000+ breweries in the country.

    But here's the thing: brewery owners, significant others and family are doing those things because they have a vested interest in said brewery beyond just having a paying job. Whether that's an interest in helping their family member succeed or they actually stand to benefit financially from the success of the company.

    To compare an employee to someone who clearly is putting in their time for pennies (or free) is disingenuous.

    I said it before and I'll say it again: it is not the responsibility of your employees to subsidize your low-margin, difficult-to-turn-a-profit business. If you can't afford to compensate your employees fairly, then you can't afford to open a business. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Yes, the article specifically talks about unionization, but also mentions later on that it's not saying that unionization is the right solution for the brewing industry. I read it as the article using unionization as a way to frame the problem in a way that at least has an eye toward solutions.

    Ironically, they also represent the size of brewery where the criticisms aren't as likely to be applicable.

    It's possible to not be "screwing" your employees over but still not compensating them fairly. Especially when an owner may believe that lower compensation is justified, given how difficult it is to just break even in the early days/weeks/months/years of opening a brewery.
     
    JackHorzempa, drtth and cavedave like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.