Interest in UK Beers?

I think international shipping concerns may be the largest issue with beers that are not in high demand (e.g. Cantillon).

You may have good luck with IP trades set up with people traveling to the UK. I have set up a lot of IP trades during trips over seas, usually I trade for local stuff that I am not familiar with that locals recommend.

 

The main concern as I see it would be the actual shipping costs. Generally speaking, the shipping costs I have to pay state to state is $20-$30. I would imagine US to UK would be substantially more.

I would love to trade for the likes of Cloudwater and Northern Monk. The desire to try a brewery from the UK with a good reputation is (unfortunately for you) outweighed by cheaper shipping costs to trade for an equally rated beer stateside. There seems to be so many great breweries popping up on a monthly basis around here, the desire to try something new can easily be satisfied. This is just my perspective on international shipping.

There are so many traders around here, it might just take the right set of eyes to land what you're looking for. Keep posting ISOs & someone is likely to bite. Maybe @BeerGlassesCollector can chime in. He has found people to ship to Cypress afterall.

Good luck

 

Got the “quoted you” notification... I will write later.. atm I am between picking up the kids from school and to reply to this and give you the info and details, I need PLENTY of time.... and my computer for typing!

 

I don't think that it is that "no one gives a shit," but rather that there are options. 100 Bio, RDG, Kriek, and some GCB and less commons like Iris DO make it to the U.S. -Even if they are ~$45/750ml. Not only that, but you can buy these ever so often from online European websites where - is you buy enough - the cost is not only worth shipping, but from the research I have done, not all that bad. It has to be cheaper than the average trade with someone from Europe.

Finally, I think it comes down to who wants to trade internationally. If they are into lambics enough to want to trade internationally, I suspect that they have enough access to the "shelf" that it is cost-prohibitive to trade internationally for these consistently. If someone is newer and/or has no access, they are the people that are more likely to make these trades.

Just my 2cp.

 

With the international shipping you always really need to pack the shit out of boxes because they take a beating. It ends up running the price quite high so you could be at 100 or so USD. That's a lot to spend on shipping so I know many people don't want to trade unless they're getting a great haul. You def need to take caution and double box, plus as we're in the hotter months there's always a possibility of any lambics you may pick up having leaking issues. I'm not sure if it's still a thing, but before there were many issues with Cantillon corks and leaking. As others have said though, you'd have the best luck with more limited lambics because it would justify shipping costs and make the trade worth it. Regulars like the bio, kriek, rdg, etc are harder to find traders for unless the right set of eyes sees it and really would want to try them all because they never have.

 

Ok so here's my humble opinion on International trading and why it has become impossible to score. Most topics have been touched by previous post but I'll just give you my complete opinion on the subject and you can take what you want from it.

1) Cost: This is obviously a big one but don't be fooled. Trust me this is NOT the main reason why Americans don't trade Internationally. I have countless posts on these forums offering to cover the difference between domestic and International costs so it would cost the person like shipping within the States and I still couldn't trigger anyone's interest. Keep on reading for the REAL reasons why people don't trade outside the US.

2) Unknown Territory: Even though I am European and live in an isolated island in the Mediterranean Sea, I have been following the US craft scene since 2002 when I joined BA. A LOT has changed since then. Just see at this post of mine where 15 years ago more than 50% on the Top 20 beers on BA where outside the US (https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/beeradvocate-15-years-ago-then-and-now.550111/). There was a screenshot on there as well but for some reason it's not showing. If you read the comments though you'll get my point. The past 5-6 years this changed. I consider the US now as the best craft Continent in the World. There's so much going on in the States at the moment that's it's hard to keep up. Excellent quality breweries in every state to cover every need a beer enthusiast may have. If you don't offer anything well-established (e.g Cantillon, 3F) people feel that they are not getting equally-worth beers from you (even though it could be extraordinarily good and maybe better that what you will be getting). And why would they? Someone located on the East coast had access to some of the World's Top rated IPAs and Stouts. It's hard to convince them that they will be getting anything as good as what they will be sending you.

3) Packing: Packing is a big one. These boxes are really mishandled. The more the FRAGILE stickers you put on a package the more it gets thrown around! It's like postal office workers are trying intentionally to break the contents when they see FRAGILE. Shipping beer overseas must be packed EXTREMELY well to avoid the obvious. It's a hassle people are not willing to get themselves into.

4) Customs: To send beer from the US to Europe, you need to fill Customs forms. On those forms you need to declare what you are sending. As "BEER" is not an option people have to declare the package as Maple Syrup, Vinegar, BBQ Sauce, Snow globes and whatever their creative mind can come up with. Well some people are not very comfortable with this.

5) Misconception: People tend to think that if they receive beer from Europe, their package will be confiscated or they will get in trouble etc etc. I have been trading for 16 years, just in the last 3 months, I received and send 6 packages of BEER to the US and Canada and had no issues whatsoever (oh and I LABEL THE PACKAGES I SEND TO THE US AS BEER).

6) Dollar to Dollar: A lot of people want to trade equal amounts when it comes to trading. This becomes VERY difficult with shipping differences, EUR to USD conversions etc etc.

7) Why bother? It's probably not going to worth it: Why bother trading with someone from the other side of the world if someone lives next to Other Half, Tree House, Bottle Logic, Monkish, Alchemist etc etc? This is as best as it gets anyway (in their minds at least) so unless you offer the most limited edition of Cantillon or 3F no one will even bother talking with you.

I could list more reasons but I need to put my son to bed.

To recap: Your chances of landing an international trade are abysmally low. You need to find someone who is not "afraid" to expand his horizons and try your "shitty-not-known" microbrewery and trust me you won't find anyone. I hit the jackpot in finding a few people and establishing long term trading partnerships but these people are like looking for a needle in a haystack. And now that I have crashed all your hopes for getting whatever craft beers you want from the US..... the good news! There's another way to get those craft beers you are craving from the US but you need to contact me in private for details.

Keep trying.. you may get lucky!

P.S: If you have access to Northen Monk, try the collab between Northern Monk, Other Half and Equilibrium PATRONS PROJECT 13.01 INFINITY VORTEX. It's INSANELY TASTY (but people still won't believe you it's good unless it has 500 ratings and over 4,3 average ;-)

..... my 2 cents of worth on the matter

 

I don't inherently disagree with you, but I think the way your explanation lacks a little clarity. Lots of beers have hundreds or thousands of reviews. Even new beers - if there is hype - can have hundreds of reviews in a single day (even if those are only untapped ratings rather than full on reviews). Comparatively, random_beer_01 from microbrewery_X may not receive only 10 reviews - even if it their best yet - across a year. This is the case for many small breweries here in the US, even if regionally (or within state) they have a phenomenal reputation.

Part of this is just culture. In indiana - unless you are near Chicago, I don't think that many people review or even rate beers. Whereas, virtually anything within Chicago you can gaurantee that there will be tons.

It's hard for people to say "I don't know you, or your palate, but I'm going to trust you to send me $100 of beer that will cost me $50+ to ship in blind faith." That's essentially what is being asked for small micro-brewery exchanges like the ones you have mentioned. I have met so many people whose palate is so different than mine that I would never want to blind-trade with them.

This highlights an important point: Why do people trade?

Some people trade only to try new beer. Others (like me) trade for beer that I want to drink that I can't get myself that I am very sure that I'll like. My palate seems to be finicky, I'm risk averse, and since most beers won't be better than a 4.25ish on a 5 point scale, I doubt that most beers that I blindly trade for will be worth spending $50+ in shipping just to say "That's fine. Not amazing. Wouldn't trade for it again."

Then there's obscurity in ratings. The U.S. is known for BA stouts and NE IPAs while the rest of the world (comparatively) is not. So, it's hard to imagine that the ratings of beers from outside the country by people that haven't had US beers to compare are systematically "over-rating" these same styles in their home-countries compared to the U.S.

My wife and I don't make a lot of money. A trade of this size/cost is not small - I have to be absolutely sure that I'll be happy.

None of these other items that you have mentioned have ever occurred to me. I believe you that people have communicated this, I just never would have guessed.

I personally truly believe that unless you are a "ticker" and derive exceptional joy from trying something that is new rather than from trying something that you would rate very high, that international trading for locals is very hard to justify as being likely to satisfy you AS MUCH as trying something new to you within country.

No disrespect. Just thought I'd elaborate.

 

It’s not disrespect friend. I follow your posts and comments and I like you @Beer_Economicus . A healthy conversation is always welcome.

What you are saying though kind of reinforces what I mentioned. Cost is only the tip of the iceberg of why people don’t trade internationally... And I think we agree on that... It’s all the rest that make this very difficult to achieve with “unknown” or shall O say un-hyped (if that’s even a word) beers for the reasons you and myself have mentioned