Hey everyone. Mike (The Mad Fermentationist, author of American Sour Beers, former economist and Modern Times Flavor Developer, and currently co-founder of Sapwood Cellars) here. Just wanted to say that we're finally getting close to brewing our first batch on our new 10 bbl brewhouse. Coming up on the last three hurdles to opening: glycol chiller installation, gas meter upgrade, and zoning tweak. My partner Scott took some convincing, but given our focus on barrel-aged sour beers it made sense to launch clubs. Obviously a big ask considering we haven't brewed our first commercial batch or even said what beers we'll brew... so I was shocked that we sold ~100 memberships yesterday, finally cashing in on our Internet-cred! No more of the Founders club slots left, but plenty of the sour and hoppy club memberships. I joined my first club (Lost Abbey's Patron Sinners) in 2008; it's interesting to see it from the other side, here are my thoughts although I'm sure they will evolve as we work out the kinks. Modern Times just released our first collaboration (The Fruitening Parts 1 and 2), and we have a few others either fermenting or in planning with other breweries (like a re-brew of McKenzies Irma Extra at Free Will). Happy to answer any questions on our plans and beers! We're hoping for a mid-September opening, but no guarantees!
I'm waiting, no rush. Looking forward to some great beers! One question... was 10 bbls the biggest you could fit? I'd think 15 would be minimum.
Minimum for what? The previous brewery in the space had a 3 bbl... For us 10 bbl had a few advantages: it fit on the existing pad (although a tight squeeze) and allowed us to go direct-fire to avoid the added cost/effort of steam. It also fit our goals of staying small and selling beer primarily out of the tasting room. With the hazy-hoppy stuff we don't want beers to sit on tap for a few months, which I'd worry 15 bbl would. It is also a convenient size to allow us to double-batch in 20 bbl fermentors and keg half and can half. I realize 9/10 small breweries wish they'd gone bigger, but I'd rather grow organically than take a big leap and miss the ledge.
If the space only allows 10 bbls that's the answer right there! I was looking at 15 as a minimum based on outside sales, but if you're intending to sell everything basically in-house then that's also the answer; and I totally agree with you, the hazy-hoppy stuff should be gone in at least 6 weeks in my opinion. I have a new question then, which is how do you see direct fire affecting your beers, and do you have any specific thoughts on that versus steam? I see benefits in both, and find steam generally more flexible, but direct fire can add certain "je ne sais quoi" qualities to certain beers.
It shouldn't have a big impact on the sorts of beers we're brewing (that is hop-fermentation driven), assuming we're careful not to scorch the wort.
It shouldn't be a problem to avoid scorching the wort at all unless the outlet pipe runs above the flame, which I'd doubt (Tun Tavern in Atlantic City, NJ did have that problem). I'm excited!!!! Looking forward to great beers!
Cheers! I should circle back around with FOAM in Burlington, they also have a system from Forgeworks (and produce fantastic beers on it).
I follow you and Scott pretty closely on your social media/blog outlets. I'm super excited for you both and will definitely be making a trip to visit from Rochester, NY soon. I have a big work conference in Baltimore in Feb 2019 and the first thing I thought of was being able to check out your spot. Cheers!
I'm not even up on the lingo... is that hazy IPAs or sour beers with fruit juice in the keg? We're both fans of the hazy IPAs (Scott is working on a book on them that should be out this fall). That said, we both lean towards a more balanced profile with some bitterness and sulfate rather than straight-juice. Our goal is to have a range of hoppy-stuff always on tap. Opening with everything from a hazy "wit" where the orange flavor come from Amarillo and Cascade (brewing a test batch this morning), to a ultra-tropical (Cashmere-Azacca) DIPA with loads of oats. We'll hit a few points in between those too. On the sour-front we'll do some sweeter more welcoming beers... but the focus is on barrel-aging, microbe-variety, real local fruit etc.
Right on. I, personally, like something in the middle of WCIPAs and straight-juice. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but IPAs need bitterness and some grapefruit pith to be worth consuming. Sorta like Casey Brewing and Blending? https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/35633/ Regardless, good luck! The wife and I would love to stop by when we visit D.C. one of these years.
If we could there there it'd be fantastic. I appreciate that while the Casey beers always have a big/fresh fruit character, there is always a great "beer" underneath all that fruit. I've been a fan of Sean's work since back in his Coors days, but he's taken time to get to where he is now in terms of figuring out microbes, fruit suppliers, and blending. It'll take us sometime to find out voice as well. I'm also planning to get a bit weirder with the fruit. For example I've been experimenting with using both dried and fresh sour cherries at different times to layer flavor in a sour red. Cooking down apple cider to add to a sour tripel etc. Take advantage of what is available the 9 months of the year there isn't great local fruit available!
FWIW, I've also found that adding citrus zest and/or a spice to fruit really brings out its character, but, yeah, flavor layering with different kinds of the same fruit or different fruits is a great idea. Actually, I think it was you who turned me on to this book. The best non-brewing book about brewing I've ever read.
Definitely, excited to scale-up the funky dark saisons I've been brewing each fall with spices, citrus zest, dried fruit etc. Just bought the new vegetarian edition, seemed more appropriate for a brewery (especially a vegan one like us).
