Why are some breweries unable to brew great beers?

Are they really unable to brew great beers or are people too picky? I think so many people expect life changing beer that they now expect everyone to make it. I think most do brew great beer, if they did not their doors would close.
Cheers

 

If we are defining juicy to reference either appearance or mouthfeel a juicy IPA ca be biitter

 

Nah, your intent is the same and I'm really not finding fault with it. I'm really responding to the OPs question. Do people have jobs? Everything people do at their jobs involves some compromise that prevents them from making something incredible. Stanley Kubrick working at the highest (but not limitless) level of economic freedom that he ever accomplished can make an actor do 80 takes of just raising a glass water to get it juuuussst right, but he'll risk damaging his working relationship with that actor (and the confidence of the crew) and therefore the entire project... and almost every other working director would never even get remotely close to that economic freedom (and 8 out of 10 audience members will hate it anyway). Brewers aren't exceptions to this. They are pumping out product. Everything in life is a compromise. Or we can just blame it on water.

 

Quality brewing is properly managing a lot of variables. Water as many have mentioned. Mash ph. Mash temp...and dozens of others. Recipe development and fresh quality ingredients. Technique in so many ways. Often - there is right and wrong. It’s talent and training/experience. It’s learning and seeking out excellence and trial and error... and willingness to admit when a particular brew doesn’t meet expectations. Like any endeavor or talent - there is a distribution curve inherent when comparing the products produced by today’s brewers. Normal dist./bell curve? Maybe. 10% top of the craft — 80% quality but missing something — 10% poor quality?

 

Lot of upstart breweries are working with new tech, still in the process of developing new beers, and have tons of logistical nightmares to deal with. In that regard I can understand brewing some lackluster beers. But these big craft beer companies trying to adapt to a changing market and putting out just lame "safe" IPAs and Stouts (looking at you Stone and New Belgium) get zero sympathy from me. And when rubber hits the road a lot of places just tend to throw shit on the wall to see what sticks.

 

Ha that’s funny, I totally missed that. I feel like I listened to a podcast recently with a Brewer from Boulevard who said their water was rather hard to brew with. I’ll have to go back and find it. Maybe I’m thinking of something else.

 

There are a couple things here. One I agree with, the other I don't. Let's to the one I don't first.

Brewing great beer is not a prerequisite to being a successful brewery.

OK, now that we're done with that, let's to what I agree with.

People need to broaden their horizons as to what they think is great beer. Great beer, perish the thought, doesn't need any additives, fruit, lactose, DDH, or barrel to make it great. If you're a self-professed beer lover and you can't find greatness in something like a helles lager or ESB I'd question your love of beer.

 

You can ask why someone puts out a crappy product in virtually every industry. The op rated the beer to style and against better examples of the beer. Most people are drinking a beer just to drink a beer, if it tastes good to them then its a good beer. I've had NE IPA's that if I rate to style I'd rate it very, very low because it was in no way a NE IPA but it doesn't make it necessarily a bad tasting drink. I won't drink that beer again and may not try anything else from that brewery because I expect a brewery to brew to style. I've also had the opportunity to drink examples of many styles that are very good. There are many styles I've not appreciated until I've had the chance to drink several different good versions of that style.

Most people don't like to try new things, they usually need some sort of push such as a lot of people telling them that this new thing is good. If you aren't willing to try new things you'll never really know what is good or bad. You could say the same thing about coffee or hamburgers. If you've ever had really good coffee why in the world would you drink the junk that's made by all the chains out there? Most people go for cost and convenience. Lots of local breweries are convenient and fun, the beer becomes secondary. "They have awesome beer" translates often to "We really enjoy hanging out at this place that has beer that's at least better than bud". You can change the minds of people who are willing to learn but even then only so much.

 

Ok I was wrong, sort of. The part about the filtration system was total bullshit on my part. My bad, dumb statement.

But I did go back and find that CB&B podcast with the Boilevard brewmaster Steven Pauwels and he specifically says their water in Kansas City is “one of the worst waters you can imagine”. pH in the upper 9s. However he did say they just use acid to adjust. Not a filtration system.

Actually just looked up the Kansas City water quality report and it’s not that bad at all??? Alkalinity isn’t actually even that high so it clearly doesn’t even take that much acid?? Doesn’t look to bad to me.

 

In the context of his entire sentence:

"<A poor example this is of an IPA, no juiceiness, bitter and an all around poor attempt."

I read it as too bitter for the style and/or what's suggested by the name. "Wicked Juicy" not only emphasizes the current juice trend but "wicked" is stereotypical boston slang so it would seem they might be trying to invoke the MA versions of the style specifically (which are generally mildly to moderately bitter).

But I don't really care very much so if anyone else reads it differently that's fine. I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

I can confirm that we absolutely do not "start from scratch." We don't RO our water. Sure, we add brewing salts to certain recipes, but we're not drastically altering the water profile for the most part.

 

I agree with that.

 

1) Water quality is huge factor. I always order a water at a brewery because it's generally the same water that is brewed with (minus some extra minerals for a particular style). It's a good way to see what they're working with.

2) Ingredient quality. Not all hops are created equal. Hop contracts ensure the freshest and best to the larger brewers. Some of the smaller guys receive "what's left."

3) Trying too hard. Some people try to reinvent the IPA "wheel." It's like making a cake. Seriously...take a proven recipe and execute it. Then tweak it a little later on. Most people don't care if an IPA from this brewery in one state tastes like an IPA from another state...they just care that it tastes good.

4) Time. The head brewer at a local brewery asked me to try a single-hop IPA that they had on tap. It had been nearly 4 weeks since it was released and he said it may have started to "fade a little" and "fall off a bit." He was right. It was good, but the massive hit of skunk that it had weeks back was gone.

 

Yup my bad. I was totally wrong in that statement. Listening to your head brewer he made it sound like the water was horrendous, which it seems like it isn’t.

 

The pH is super high, sometimes around 9.5 - 10+, but I think most people in Kansas City would agree that our water tastes great.

 

Unless you're asking for a sample of water from the hot and cold liquor tanks, you absolutely are not drinking the same water they're using on the brewhouse. Breweries just aren't plumbed that way. Sure, you're drinking from the same municipal supply they use, but as I and other folks have mentioned above, it's been through some processing before ending up in the HLT and CLT.

 

I see why there is confusion. Boilevard is a different brewery.

 

Just after making this post, I had a business call and the person said, "I wish we could do something more interesting but nobody wants it and we don't have the time." It's how the world works.

 

Having had said beer, I was not that impressed with it. I didn't slam it too bad on ratings, as either I was having a palate issue or there was some inconsistencies in the 6 pack I got. One was pretty much a straight up malt bomb, the other was pretty good, with a somewhat good hop profile coming thru. Bitterness on both was on par with a standard IPA. I don't believe they were shooting for NEIPA here. Also this was when the beer was first released. I plan on revisiting it again soon to see if it was a fluke. I don't think Shiner has the best experience with IPA's, they are a little more on the malty side, somewhat old school, but they do that by design I believe. Their Fresh Hop beer was really good as @ilikebeer03 said above and was reminiscent of a fresh hop West Coast IPA. As far as Shiner not being able to brew great beers, that is for other to debate, but I will say that their barrel aged Marzen is perhaps the best BA beer I have had this year.

 

Honestly most breweries compete so regionally you just have to brew better or at least on par with the places in your local area. And facilities are sooo important too!