Founders Contract Brewing All Day IPA

No the brewery doesn't respond to questions about this to my knowledge. But after they went over to the Centerfuge the beers produced were just bad, not only different but truly bad. I used to trade HDR can for can with Heady, now I won't even buy it. The demand went thru the roof as you can imagine and they tied HDR to other beers like Hop Jam and Coco Loco, you wanted HDR you had to also buy the other beers. So as the beer changed retailers couldn't sell HDR , and the other stuff backed up as well. You would think that you had the formula once, you brewed it so you knew what it tasted like, that it's been years and they can't recapture that is mind boggling. I have no other explanation for HDR other than it was of Heady Topper Quality, they increased production to meet demand hence the Centerfuge , and couldn't duplicate it. I talked to a vendor in Charlotte who's a huge distributor for NoDa and he confirmed the difficulties with increasing production.

 

I agree with you Dale! I used to trade HDR also and have not purchased a can in years! I think the same thing happened to FH Jade when they moved to their big system. Not the same beer that was made at their brewpub on the original system when it was awesome!

 

I haven't bought Jade in years as well, if I'm buying their hoppy stuff I'm only buying Hoppyyum, which is middle of the road at best. Still decent enough.

 

You're piling on several very different issues on top of an asset and logistics matter for a parent company looking at its holdings. i.e. breweries, and seeing an opportunity to use excess capacity to insure that Founders best selling product can hit its West Coast markets a couple weeks earlier than it would if it were to be coming from Michigan.
Smuttynose took on a debt load with the beautiful and pricey upgrade to their facilities that became a burden due to locally sourced product crowding their distribution footprint right off the shelf. They predicted a future that didn't include that, and it bit them.
Green Flash expanded far too quickly, and turned into something they were totally not prepared to do. They also made some really stupid decisions at the worst possible time for a growing brand to make really stupid decisions at.
Introducing a centerfuge into the brewhouse for the purpose of making a bright beer and making taste slightly cleaner is something else entirely.

 

It most definately is a different scenario with the Centerfuge, my point is that there are many ways to screw things up. Once you make a change there new variables introduced that could cause problems. I'm not lumping Founders into the above mistakes, but when you make a big change in production to any degree you need to hit on making the same beer.

 

Me too. Sierra Nevada is an iconic American brewery making great beer. Seems to me like Sierra Nevada is a brewery others should aspire to be like.

 

There are more than a couple of breweries around here that can't seem to make the same beer two batches in a row, let alone introducing other variables (scaling up, contract brewing, etc.)

If you don't have your process under control first, introducing other significant changes almost guarantees it won't be the same beer.

Oddly, many craft beer geeks scoff at the need for a local darling to have their process under control (some even accuse those who advocate for that as trying to restrict entry to the craft beer market!), while at the same time vilifying a craft brewer who's beers differ when they do a major scale-up, contract brew, etc. (Case in point: Toppling Goliath / Brew Hub)

I guess if consistency is not required of small brewers, it is also not required of beer geeks.

 

It's one reason why I not only admire Two Hearted Ale, but I buy it frequently enough to be significant. It always fresh here and it's always the same beer, I'd say better on tap than in bottles, but that's my impression. I do admire consistency, guys scoff at Budweiser, but what they accomplish is no mean feat.

 

All Day is the "Lite" beer of IPAs. I really can't get into it, but I don't think it's designed for "me" or even for people on this site in general. Would I drink it over a Budweiser if they were the same price at a music venue? Honestly, probably not. It has all the bitterness of a WC ipa with basically none of aromas. SNPA is a classic beer and is 1% difference in abv, I'd take x4 SNPAs over x5 AD 100% of the time.

I have to say though, if they need capacity and Avery has plenty to spare, it is good to see this type of transaction, no matter my opinion on the beer itself.

Hopefully they are going to use this capacity to get after it on BAFIS in GR

 

I know you are just using that as an example, but those beers also probably came crashing back into reality as much because homers outside the IA scene (or their trade partners who had paid handsomely) were exposed as more and more of the beer was getting tasted.

I had been hearing all along that the IPAs from TG were spotty if not highly overrated, for years. The stouts I have no comment as I have not tasted and no one can separate the fact from fiction when you are buying airline tickets and $100/12oz beers.

My point being- when people heavily invested in the brand are the only ones reviewing, the scores get very high. When something reaches the necessity of contract brewing, tons of people are going to start trying the beer, at various ages after packaging, and that rAvg is almost guaranteed, to nosedive.

 

Bingo! It is indeed going to happen much like that and if it doesn't we'll have a strong reason to believe there's more there than "local pride."

 

About right IMO. To be honest I'd prefer a cold crisp Bud as a well, and I'd agree I'm not their target audience. There's too many good beers within 1% abv to bother with this stuff.

 

That was the foundation of my point. TG was highly inconsistent batch to batch for pseudoSue, yet chose to contract brew it at Brew Hub. The locals complained extensively that the Brew Hub pseudoSue was nothing like the Decorah version (all the while ignoring that the Decorah version was frequently nothing like itself...). Many people's first taste of the highly-rated pseudoSue was the Brew Hub version.

I grabbed one of the first batches available in the Twin Cities (from Brew Hub). I rated it above 4, concluding with this statement in my review: "This ale is really good. There's been a lot of discussion that the Brew Hub / FL versions are substandard compared with the legendary Decorah brew, but these versions are really good."

TG went through a fairly long period where the Brew Hub brewed p'Sue was, while a really good APA, generally viewed by the locals as a shadow of its former self.

Even so, long term damage to the brand seems to be minimal, as recent reviews are still in the 4.5 territory from reviewers well dispersed from Iowa.

 

Thanks for clearing that up,

 

Gotcha, makes sense. I have to say though that this brew isn't THAT widely distributed, there's been a couple drops in DC at one particular shop, but we can get damn near anything in DC (unique distribution laws) and I have never seen a bottle/can in person or on a shelf

 

You are so very welcome.

 

No problem, I wasn't sure based on all of your other posts on whether or not you really disliked the beer . No we all know that you do not like Founders All Day IPA.

I look forward to learning what other beers you do not like.

 

Really not all that many styles, but I don't like stuff like Steel Reserve, a Malt Liqour thread pops up every now and then, but it's been awhile. But I like Mickys hand grenades. I'm a sour newb, still a work in progress. Westbrook Gose is tough, it's super salty and sour , and heavily spiced, but I like their Key Lime Gose. We all have our likes and dislikes, and styles were working on.

 

Truer words were never spoken

 

Avery makes great beers, if they're brewing under capacity it shouldn't be a problem and it's an opportunity to make some money. I'm sure they'll do a good job with that.