Micro breweries and lagers

I have tried a few locals to me that might be a little hop forward, but not over done. That being said in haven’t had issues with local Pilsners being overly yeasty. Honestly I feel feel lucky being able to call Victory Prima Pils a local, between Prima Pils, Tired Hands Trendler Pilsner, Tired Hands Helles Other People and Troegs Sunshine Pils I feel truly lucky with local lagers.

I will say lagers seem hard to brew and some American breweries tend to be too heavy handed with lagers so they miss the balance they should have.

 

I guess the long and the short of it would be that they don't really understand them, and that they aren't fundamentally sound brewers to begin with if that's what they're releasing.

 

The same thing sorta applies in that example with the great Pilsner and so-so ales, though: "getting it" and attention to detail do matter, whatever you're brewing.

The better way to go about your overall query, then, might be to instead ask "what are these guys overlooking"? That may lead to a more technical discussion, although that's the heart of it right there- with a lot of styles it's as much about process as it is about what hops or malts you use, while inexperienced brewers will tend to put too much stock in their recipe alone.

 

Don’t know where you’re at in Ohio. But you should be able to find some Three Floyds. They do really good, traditional German style lagers.

But to actually answer your question, Lagers are a very hard style to hide any flaws. They are such a pure, unadulterated version of beer. They aren’t like a lot of Ales that have something added to them or lean one way (heavy on malts or heavy on hops, for ex.) that make it easy to hide flaws.

You truly have to find the PERFECT balance for them to be what you’re referring to.
And let’s be honest, the Germans have been at it a while!
Cheers

 

When I'm in a new brewery I do the exact opposite of that. An IPA or a Pale ale first. If they can't brew a good IPA it's doubtful they can brew anything well.

 

I think that one of the ironies of craft beer is the way that the supposed inherent quality of craft beer was juxtapositioned against the supposed lack of quality as represented by the established breweries back in the day. Then comes 7000 new breweries who all to an extent have benefitted from this thinking. I'm talking the bigger picture here, not individual sentiments or cases. These breweries to a large extent have coalesced around a few yeasts which are used to brew the majority of the styles, and there has clearly emerged a process for using these yeasts which gives the breweries a reliable outcome in flavor if combined with American hops. So there's a process of cloning the process of other breweries to get the same results.

Now when it comes to lager beers, those which were previously shunned by alot of craft brewers, I don't see the same process being played out. The yeasts used are coming from established breweries or via labs which purport to be from established breweries, and in order to perform like they are expected to they require a certain method of handling and processing, of brewing. This required process would be that of the commercial breweries using these yeasts, breweries which have developed over time a particular brewing process using particular equipment, overseen by trained professionals, to achieve a particular end result. It seems unlikely to me that most craft breweries which attempt to brew lager truly follow the lead of the established lager breweries in terms of process and equipment, and more likely they are adapting the process for brewing craft ales for brewing lager. It seems logical to me that the outcome of such a process will not be the same as that of an established lager brewery.

In other words, there does not seem to me to exist the same kind of pre-fab model, or blueprint, available for craft breweries brewing lager beer as which existed for craft breweries wanting to brew craft ales. They either have to do alot more work, invest in new equipment and adopt new processes to try and scale down the process of the established lager breweries, or come up with their own system, which I would think would lead to a lower degree of uniformity, more variation and diversity of adopted solutions and more variable outcomes in terms of the finished product.

But, this is all conjecture of course, but I figured I would add some of it to this thread and hopefully help to get a good discussion going since I find this to be an interesting topic of discussion.

 

Great list and I would add Sly Fox and Stoudts to it.

 

The biggest issues for small breweries with producing lager is... Time, and tank real estate.
Lagers tie up the production schedule, which can also put a crimp on output.

 

As has already been discussed by @larryi86 and @ESHBG there are a plethora of high quality lagers being brewed by craft breweries in SEPA and every year the list grows longer. Just one example, a new brewery of Root Down in Phoenixville is brewing excellent lagers (Helles, Pilsners, etc.).

I am in agreement with what Patrik (@Crusader) stated in post #10. Brewing lagers involves knowledge of how best to take care of the lager yeast(s) you are brewing with with plenty of process decisions needed. It is popular on BA to make fun of Anheuser-Busch but when it comes to brewing lagers their attention to brewing detail and their accompanying QC/QA is second to none. Craft breweries can learn a lot from a brewery like AB.

The good news is that with the requisite attention to detail craft breweries can indeed produce high quality lagers. The long (and getting longer) list of craft breweries in SEPA are proof of that.

Cheers!

 

I'm lucky here, I have two breweries that specialize in German beers only. The Brewers were trained and worked in Germany for years learning their craft, and ownership spares no expense. SE PA is famous for its lagers, there's many examples from Victory to Stouts to Neshaminy Creek and many others that simply do it right. It's a tough project and IMO many Brewers simply don't have the knowledge or skill to pull off something that's so unforgiving, and so I think they go in half way and do what's comfortable and maybe over hop it. I love a great Pils and Red Oak IMO makes the best Pils I've ever had, it's simply a marvelous beer that's a joy to drink, Old Mecklenburg is famous for their beers but they're sequestered in Charlotte.

 

We're fortunate in Chicago to have lager only breweries such as Dovetail, Metropolitan, and Kinslahger who all do excellent work. Dovetail is also about as traditional as a lager only facility can get as far as their brewhouse is concerned, and in what they pour at the tap.

 

Often it is the equipment and process. The ingredients (malts, hopsh and yeast) can be sourced. Proper lager brewing is different from brewing ales, much more attention do details is required.

Some good examples I have had this year. Helles at SN Mills River, pFriem Pils, ABGBs lineup, the lagers at Urban Chestnut. There have been many lackluster ones.

 

For as many breweries as what I've visited, I think most don't even attempt brewing a lager, and probably the lack of the right equipment and the turn-around time are the major factors. However, when I do run into a brewery that has some lagers on the menu, I rarely see a bad one, so I'm thinking the example(s) that the OP mentions may just be the rare exception.

This description just yells at me like this is a brewery that doesn't know what they are doing at all, and the "killer Pilsner" is just a 'happy accident'.

For the light-colored lagers this is probably very true (American light lagers or pilsners being definite examples), but 'lagers' also include bocks and dopplebocks in the family, both of which have a bold taste characteristic that can hide some flaws.

 

This is a favorite topic that I think has been a bit overplayed. I have never seen a greater amount of good craft lager available to me than the present.

My only complaint is that some of the traditional German lagers are now harder to find.

 

Could be because your choice might be between a great fresh local option and a 9 month old import. I love German beers, but it's uphill a bit when I can get Red Oak that is a few days old. If they don't sell retailers don't order, and distributors don't buy. Local beers that are great and super fresh is tough to beat. Same applies to beers like Pivo and Prima, I can get equal or better quality beers that are 3 days old, I've got no reason to reach.

 

And even older like the German beers at my local beer retailers.

Cheers!

 

I suspect the same here, I see Jever on the shelf which I've never had, but I can't pull the trigger. You have great local options, I have great local options, I just can't stretch it and risk the beers a year old or worse. It's not a lot of money obviously, but I hate to be disappointed for a beer that I might guarentee is past its prime. If it's a year old beer vs a 3 day old high quality beer who wins that battle?