Brewer’s Style Intent vs. Perceived Style

But IPA is a Pale Ale by definition.In the heyday of exporting beer to India many brewers such as Bass never attached India to the description, just sold it as Pale Ale.

 

True, but things are a little different the way we see things on this side of the pond, and I'm not going to jump into that discussion.

 

I don't always assume the brewer is right, specifically if they're a new brewer. With over 7000 breweries in the US, and new one's popping up everyday, not EVERY brewer is a "professional" and experienced in the industry.

If Sierra Nevada lists a beer as a certain style, I'll trust it every day of the week and twice on Sunday. If Joe's New England IPAs opens up around the corner, I may be a bit more skeptical.


I also like the story I've heard over the years that Oskar Blues Dale's Pale Ale is only called a pale ale because "Dale's IPA" doesn't rhyme.

 

I will call it what the brewer calls it then I will toss my thoughts in the review which thoughts will reflect the full extent of my limited ability.

 

Hence, the issue with nomenclature is an endemic quandary in a diverse world of beer. People get hung up on names, styles, and designations way too much. Who cares what it's called if it's a good beer? Categorizing things is good until it becomes an obsession.

 

Fuck "intent". They intentionally chose a certain style as a descriptor. If the beer doesn't at least attempt to approach the style, how is a consumer supposed to divine what the brewers "intenet" was?

If the brewery calls it a stout, but it looks, smells, feels, and tastes like a Saison, I'm giving it a low score as a stout. Might be the best Saison in the world, but......

 

I defer to @marquis about naming beers, and the varying needs for it through time as beer culture worldwide has begun to mature..Thing is, these days, .being locked into a stylistic framework understanding is always a bit outdated. On thinking on it, I do realize beer is a whimsical elixir altogether needing wide limits.

 

So, would you be OK with all beer, regardless of what we currently consider its style, being just called "beer"? It's a 93 degree day with 945 humidity, you've just finished planting some new shrubs for the wife, she rewards you with a "Beer", you pop the top, and slam that DH WWS in one glorious pull. Cuz that's what you want, right? Beer?

Among the many reasons styles have developed and evolved is the basic human desire to have a clue of what the fuck we're getting. If one truly believes that styles are meaningless, then one should just blindly accept all beer as "Beer", universally adequate for all times and situations.

I, for one, know that when I am in the mood for (as an example) an IPA, a stout won't do. At least the style descriptor gives me clue as to what I should pour down my throat.

 

Lord no, my friend. My problem is that I can float through knowing beer well and seeing other folks just take it all too seriously. I know beer as well as anyone, but I just shudder at the degree to which many worry about which one is which. I'll be damned about my complaining about this beer fussiness. I read some of these threads about style and name and know that none of the conversation enlightens me beyond what I already know...

 

I generally won't dunk on a beer for veering into the extremes of a style as long as it's a good beer. I might note that it's a rather hop forward pils or very mellow sour etc., but unless it truly and to it's detriment goes into unrecognizable territory I won't lower a rating or discuss it poorly.

I buy and serve beer at a craft beer bar for a living. I recently poured a beautiful oak fermented Brett pilsner which was a collaboration with two great local breweries. It was very Brett and oak forward and really didn't drink like a pils at all (in addition to being 6.9 abv). I had a simple golden lager on draft at the same time, and when people came up and asked for a pilsner, I generally would offer the lager first.

 

Well, duh, of course. But that does tie in with what @AlcahueteJ was saying above- these days a lot of brewers are either getting too 'cute' with the terminology or they don't really get it to begin with.

 

Theres not many BW on the market, I suspect that Backwoods Bastard probably sets the pace there in terms of familiarity. I’m not a BB fan, it’s too sweet for my tastes, but it would be one that anyone interested might know. And of course they’re all supposed to be that way.

Pils are all over the place, and imo it’s unfair to compare a beer you brew that’s a few days old to a beer brewed and bottled 8 months ago. To that regard I’ve probably never had a fresh German
beer in any style because I’ve never been to Germany. It would follow that your efforts would be deemed hoppier than traditional German efforts because your beer is fresh. I’m sorry, but I don’t see how they can be judged side by side, I’m sure they don’t conceive their beer to be consumed 8- 12 months or more after bottling. It might be a reality in the export market but it’s far from ideal.

 

Are you saying that barleywines are supposed to be like Backwoods Bastard, or wee heavys? I'd argue that either are way off, but am just trying to see where you're coming from.

 

No not at all. What I’m saying if that the style isn’t all that common, and the distro for beers like Backwoods Bastard are fairly broad. It might follow that if that’s the only beer you’ve had in that style you would expect that theyre all supposed to taste like that. So when Tombstone brews a beer that’s a different of course it’s being directly compared to BB.

 

OK, gotcha. Unfortunately that feedback loop has been in effect for a number of decades at this point within the American craft beer scene; I feel bad for the brewers who try to do things the right (and better ) way and run into that kind of resistance.

 

Back in the day everyone I knew thought German beers were supposed to taste like that. We didn’t understand old light struck beer, it was a German import and a good many were lightly skunked. It was just beer and they were very different than Budweiser, if you don’t know you just don’t know. In regards to the lighter styles of beers freshness is very important, there’s not a lot of places to hide flaws. I usually steer clear from imported Pils or Lagers because I can get great beers here that are 10 days old. I like a nice Urquell every now and then but about as fresh as I can ever find are still 2-3 months old.

It’s easy to see where the frustration sets in when honkey brews a beer true to style, and it’s deemed to be different that what they were expecting. It’s why I rarely rate anything, if I like it I drink it, if I don’t I won’t.

 

Fwiw, 3 month old Urquell, and even Jever, are still incredible and still outclass most everything here that's fresher, imo. I'd jump on that in a second if I saw it.

 

I've read (somewhere... here, maybe?) that the slightly skunky taste of Heineken in green bottles was missing when they started canning, and some didn't like it as much because they associated the skunky taste with the beer.

BTW, Pilsner Urquell is now available in cans, which helps a lot.

 

This^^^

While I understand @honkey's frustration with his customers, I would point out that if his brewery wants to try to change this (at least a little), perhaps a bit of education would help, at least in the form of notes on menus, can/bottle labels, etc. One of our local brewers held several sessions for the public to help them identify off-tastes in beer. IDK how well attended they were (and since I didn't attend, how effective they were). You might consider something like that.

The vast majority of members here (I suspect - obviously, I don't know for sure) have never been through any kind of beer tasting training, such as BJCP, let alone Cicerone Certification.

I know I haven't.

I have tried to educate myself through OTD training (on the drink), through my own "blind" taste tests using widely recognized beers from their home country of a particular traditional style compared with local versions. I even tried a blind test to attempt to identify the differences between German and Czech pils. It is not easy (at least, not for me).

And the average craft drinker? Forget it. They may think Maris Otter is a furry river creature and that Miller Lite is how a Pilsner is supposed to taste (well, hopefully not that, but...)