Career in brewing industry

You're free to make that offer, but your willingness to be exploited is a poor defense for violating labor laws. Look, I don't have an issue with a one-off here and there (friend of the owner helping out on bottling day, someone spending part of a day to get a behind-the-scenes look at brewery operations, former employee jumping behind the bar when a server has to leave unexpectedly). If, however, I found out that they were engaging in a systemic use of volunteer labor for critical brewery functions, I'd stop going there. If you're having someone do the work of an employee on any sort of regular/ongoing basis, you should make them an employee.

And, like others have mentioned, I don't understand why this whole "entitlement" issue got brought into the discussion. Expecting a for-profit business to comply with federal/state labor regulations is somehow being entitled? Let me ask you this, if it's fine for a brewery to disregard labor laws, what other laws is it OK for them to disregard?

 

An internship involves getting school credits with oversight . It is not an adult simply working for free.

 

Used to be. Shit has changed. For the better.

 

How do you weigh out the sweat equity vs acquired knowledge?

 

Sweat equity? Where's that involved?

 

As an intern you are investing in your future career, no? Even as an intern I personally would still put in a helping hand on any part of the business I could. Maybe I'm in the minority here. Maybe everyone else would stand back and watch. Maybe that's part of the problem....

 

Ahhh. Yes an intern is there to both invest in his/her career by gaining academic credits of some kind and to have "hands on" experience that is useful in seeking a job. Interns don't just stand back and watch, they are there for OJT.

But you want some term other than "sweat equity." SE is when someone gains partial ownership in the company by investing time rather rather than money. (Been there, done that. It's not an internship.)

 

Are you literally asked me that? I mean, this is where I differ from the bulk of posters on these sorts of threads, who seem to be more interested in proclaiming their views on such topics, rather than dealing with facts. Hey, I got opinions, too, but that post of mine above is a link to the Dept. of Labor's current Intern Rules.

I guess if you have a question, ask them or, uh "...see a lawyer". Whoa, yeah, I apologize since that sounds snarky but, really, what does it matter what I think? Thems the rules. Brewers who don't like them and want to violate them - hey, feel free. They can justify their legal and ethical (yeah, my opinion for the latter) lapses all they want. Chances are slim they'll get in any trouble.

I do kinda wish the brewers were called out when they do use volunteer labor - I do need help in narrowing down my choices at the store. Likely, tho', the volunteers do think they are gaining rather than being exploited.

(More opinion comin' up ):
Just strikes me funny that much of the "craft brewing industry" likes to portray themselves as being crusaders against the greedy international brewing companies with them playing the morally-superior "Davids". Hell, man, if you can't pay minimum wage, maybe you shouldn't be in business. (Ditto for those who drape themselves in "Buy Local" ethic and operate breweries full of cheap, Chinese-made equipment.)

For those interested in how the current rules changed from the so-called 2010 DOL Rule, which was based on 6 criteria that had to be met - including ones like:

see the legal site:
https://www.pillsburylaw.com/en/new...abor-changes-rules-on-unpaid-internships.html

Yeah, really - even the most rabid anti-worker, "pro-capitalist" posters* should realize that using unpaid labor puts the legal "play by the rules" breweries which obey state and Federal labor and alcoholic beverage laws at a economic disadvantage. (Somehow, no one expects maltsters or hop merchants or landlords to give away their product because it'd be good for them, or the poor brewery is so small they deserve it).

The labor union theory of equal pay through-out an industry (and the brewing industry was once consider 100% organized, starting in the pre-Pro era up to the Coors union-busing debacle in the 1970s) is that it takes labor cost out of the equation. If capitalism is manufacturers competing on an equal playing field based on their product, that competition should be based on things other than the cost of labor.

* Well, I supposed except for those of a Libertarian bend, who don't believe in any laws, labor or otherwise.

 

Agreed that sweat equity may not have been the right terminology for what I was trying to describe, but my point was more to the idea that in most things in life you get out what you put in. Having dealt with interns, the ones who stand out are the ones who are willing to jump in and quite literally get their hands dirty. The interns who were non participatory during their time with me were never hired. I had one kid tell me he wouldn't help, he was only there to observe. Guess who didnt get the job we had open?
@jesskidden I did ask your opinion as laws, while written pretty directly, have some gray area and I was curious where you would draw the line between volunteering, interning, and blatant disregard for labor laws. I do think there is room for manual labor in volunteering and interning, however there are also expectations of education in return. If there is NO compensation that has previously been agreed upon I feel it is immoral. And yes, discounted labor gives a brewery unfairadvantages, which is why I don't believe interns or volunteers should be doing things while unsupervised, or in place of a full time employee.

 

To be fair, you still would be "volunteering" to do those jobs even if you were getting paid minWage-$15/hr, they're not fun. I used to help on bottling day at a local brewery, and after 4 times of showing up sober + on time, remaining sober throughout the shift, generally being interested, they asked me if I wanted to work there full time. There was a miscommunication as I was just volunteering ($15/hr and as many half fills as I wanted) between other jobs, but it was still kind of cool.

Brewing is about as glamorous as being a plumber, pretty much everything is (1) set up for "step x" by making sure everything is clean and minimum mess will ensue (2) whoever is in charge does "step x", usually which takes a matter of minutes (3) cleanup time! ... repeat.

 

I just saw an article about how a large Boston brewer promoted a volunteer to brewer for innovative small batch beers. https://www.boston.com/food/restaur...r-behind-night-shifts-most-experimental-beers

In what is a puff piece and essentially an advertisement for Night Shift’s new taproom in one of the most expensive parts of Boston, the co-founder is quoted as saying that he used volunteers to do bottling, labeling, cleaning fermenters and mash tuns, etc. because at the time they couldn’t “offer ... a real paid job”.

I have no idea why they would volunteer that information, but it definitely sullies the company in my eyes.

 

Sounds like a terrific outcome for her, she had a nice job and left it to get away from the desk life. Seems like the company rewarded her very well, she came in with zero experience now brews beer for them full time, win win all around in my book. A little hard work and perseverance and now she has the job she wanted, cheers to her and them for giving her what she desired.

 

Can you imagine that? They just ran away? How unethical - where's the pride in a job well-done and unpaid?

I mean, is the Dred Scott Decision still the law of the land or what?

(Huh? Abraham who? Thirteenth what?)