Beervana: Surviving the Stress Test

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by Todd, Feb 25, 2019.

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  1. RochefortChris

    RochefortChris Grand Pooh-Bah (3,271) Oct 2, 2012 North Carolina
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    This has been coming for a while, many people including myself see an impending implosion of breweries and only a few will be left standing. It is not wise to open a brewery or expand in the current atmosphere, but hunker down for the coming storm.
     
  2. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,242) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
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    Smuttynose?
     
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  3. rgordon

    rgordon Pooh-Bah (2,701) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina
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    Green Flash and Smuttynose were two we sold in the early 00s. They were two of my favorites. They both got overstretched in distribution strategy, and both had some management liabilities. They were great people that made great beer. I miss Smuttynose more than Green Flash.
     
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  4. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,242) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Smuttynose is still around, at least up here in MA.
     
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  5. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    John, I have been feeling this way for my area (SEPA). I would have told you 1-2 years ago there were already enough (too many?) local breweries but many new ones have opened in the past 1-2 years. I now have within 2 miles of my house two HUGE local breweries that opened up within the past 6 months. Is there genuinely a market for these two new breweries? Needless to say I would answer no since I though there was already enough/too many breweries around but every few weeks I learn of more new breweries opening up. Either I have a poor understanding of the market demands here or these new brewery owners don't have a good understanding. I wish these new guys well so I sincerely hope that I am the person with the poor understanding in this matter.

    Cheers!

    @rotsaruch
     
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  6. Domingo

    Domingo Grand Pooh-Bah (4,252) Apr 23, 2005 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah

    I visited Portland for the first time last year and found the level of overall quality to be extremely high. While I planned to visit a few famous stops, once we arrived it become very easy to try random beers of all sorts. For a city with so many breweries I wash shocked how few were average to poor. That's taking into account traditional styles (like German lagers) as well as new school styles like flavored stouts and fruited milkshake IPA's. Plus unlike many other cities I feel like there was a lot of variety. It's not like everyone was making the same type of IPA and/or stout.
     
  7. bubseymour

    bubseymour Grand Pooh-Bah (4,800) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
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    Ding, ding ding....this checks all the boxes of a mature beer culture IMO. Random high quality...similar traits to England, Belgium and Germany
     
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  8. John_M

    John_M Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,849) Oct 25, 2003 Washington
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Same thought always crosses my mind as well Jack. To date, anecdotal evidence seems to strongly suggest that I'm the one with a poor understanding of market demands.
     
  9. Domingo

    Domingo Grand Pooh-Bah (4,252) Apr 23, 2005 Colorado
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    I'd say that is an accurate statement. There aren't many other cities in the US I'd say that about. At most there are 3-4.
     
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  10. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,242) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I would say similar traits to Brussels, Munich...etc., specific cities. Rather than name the entire countries.

    I’m sure there’s plenty of mediocre beer cities in those countries.
     
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  11. bubseymour

    bubseymour Grand Pooh-Bah (4,800) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    You are probably correct. I have never been (yet) so I'm no expert.
     
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  12. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    But you are now witnessing some 'corrections' in Portland with: "...closures. Breweries have shut down (BridgePort, Alameda, Burnside), brewery pubs have closed (Widmer, Lompoc), and other pubs are in their final days (Growler Guys, Steinhaus)." Wouldn't this situation seem to give pause and maybe breweries should no longer be opening "every week" in Portland?

    Cheers!

    P.S. FWIW I personally have not noted a similar level of 'corrections' in the Philly area but....
     
  13. John_M

    John_M Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,849) Oct 25, 2003 Washington
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    My take is that the market here is just getting increasingly competitive. As I mentioned above, none of the places you reference have been making bad beer (with the possible exception of Alameda), but it wasn't anything to write home about either. Since those breweries opened many years ago, the quality of craft beer (I would argue) has improved pretty dramatically, and yet they've pretty much adhered to the status quo. Every once in a while they might come out with a new beer (a hazy IPA, a BA stout, kettle sour, etc.), but it seemed as if this was in reaction to the current national trends, and not due to any innovation or impetus on their part. I never got the impression their heart was really in it (as the results were typically nothing to write home about); they seemed to be content to just continue to get by with the same old, same old (which admittedly, for years had been more than sufficient for them to make their nickel).

    My impression is that breweries entering the market now see the landscape a bit differently then how Bridgeport, Widmer and Lompoc (for example) saw it many years ago. Competition in PDX is very, very stiff, not to mention numerous (breweries everywhere in town it seems like). My impression is that new breweries entering the market in PDX have usually done their homework (they know who they're competing against and what they're up against), and most seem pretty well financed. Despite all that, not everyone succeeds here, but given just how much competition there is now in PDX, I'm just a bit surprised there aren't more closures of new start-ups in town (which actually seem to be fairly few over the past couple of years).
     
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  14. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I guess we will see what 2019 and 2020 bring?

    Cheers!
     
  15. Domingo

    Domingo Grand Pooh-Bah (4,252) Apr 23, 2005 Colorado
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    This is true. Their overall baseline is higher than the US, but the beer scene in say...Tampa is more robust than Frankfurt, Charleroi, etc.
     
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  16. rgordon

    rgordon Pooh-Bah (2,701) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina
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    It's absent here now. Finestkind was/is(?) a fine IPA .
     
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  17. John_M

    John_M Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,849) Oct 25, 2003 Washington
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Agreed. I know I keep on saying "This can't last. Even a town as thirsty and craft beer savvy as PDX has to max out on the number of breweries it can support. Surely we've hit that point!" But then I see places like Ruse and Level open, both of which are located in very odd locations (no where close to downtown or any major population/neighborhood centers), and they're doing just fine (both places make pretty good beer - Ruse in particular). And then I find myself telling myself "shows what you know John."
     
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  18. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,242) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Society Pooh-Bah

    It was one of the first (if not the first) IPAs I ever had.

    I still remember how much the grapefruit character popped in that beer. It was one of those "aha!" moments.
     
  19. rgordon

    rgordon Pooh-Bah (2,701) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina
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    The beautiful and refreshing dry finish also contained an intriguing white pepper aspect. Finestkind is/was one of my all time favorites.
     
  20. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
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    One pressure on the breweries and bars in Portland is the real estate being worth more as a high rise condo. I can't think of an example of a place closing, but I remember stories of the rent increasing by multiples of what they were paying (growler guys?). I know a few people in Portland, they are not happy with highrise trend changing the city.

    Edit - The area around Bridgeport was a gritty warehouse area circa 2000. Now it has gentrified, and there are highrise condos on 3 sides. I fully expect that the Bridgeport property to be developed.
     
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