BrewDog Acquires Stone Berlin

Finally, I'm not saying there are NO German beers worthy of scorn/being symbolically crushed by a big stone on a forklift...but those are generally the no-names (or the Something-Something Krone or Gold) from Aldi and Lidl. And they are in cans and/or plastic bottles, so the crushing effect might be less than dramatic anyway.

EDIT: I'll put the non-Reinheitsgebot brewed macros in there as well. Yuck.

EDIT 2: I used to put Oettinger in there. But since they acquired local breweries across Germany -- specifically the old Feldschloesschen works in Braunschweig where my in-laws are from -- I actually had some ultra-fresh examples that were surprisingly good. So maybe we can add some Oettinger from the old Bavarian brewery. That junk can be bad.

 

When I was in Berlin a couple months ago, I found myself at Muted Horn for several beers. The beer tenders were really great, and he made a point regarding German beer drinkers that stuck with me.

He said that most German beer drinkers are drinking what their fathers drank, and their grand fathers drank, and their great grand fathers... back up the line.

Someone here said the Germans are very slow to change. It's very true. Now, having said that, there are some really fantastic 'craft beers' in German, they're just really hard to find. Quick shout out to Fuerst Wiacek.

I would also say, if you can't survive in Berlin with a rather diverse population, you'd NEVER make it in Bavaria where tradition is even more ingrained.

 

The Stone brewery in Berlin when built had a capacity of "45,000 hectoliters" - while Koch might have promoted his mission as converting "German beer drinkers" he only needed a tiny percentage of them (plus other Europeans, US ex-pats, and tourists from all over, etc) to stay in business in a country that brews over 90 Million hectoliters a year.

Sounds good but, realistically the math doesn't work since there were 6,500 breweries in Germany (Dec. 1928 American Brewer magazine) in great-granddad's 1927 and today there are 1300 or so.

Wait - unless all the customers of those 4k defunct breweries never had kids?

 

well...a lot probably didn't have kids since they were likely in the old German army in the 1940s, if you know what I mean?

 

Still looking forward to staying at Stone's hotel/resort. Is that still happening?

 

You know something I've heard of this today and I've read all of your post. Some seem like real craft enthusiast while others seem like disgruntled former Stone employees or some people whom just have no clue as in, i'm giving my opinion about something I don't know.

Let's break down the facts and not from a craft beer perspective, nor from a Stone perspective or a Brewdog perspective, but as business people....

1) Greg did something no other Brewery did. Right or Wrong? Who gives a damn, because nobody else had the balls to do what he did. He might have had people say "not a good idea" but he had a vision and that was the same vision he and Steve built. Most of you have no idea what they have done and want to bash a man for a vision and dream. Did your mom and dad bash you when you had a dream? I bet not, so don't do it to them/him. When you want to talk smack you should do it in front of someone's face and not via social media as you look weaker than the person whom admitted a poor judgement for his company.

2) Yes the European/German market is tough to break into, especially when you're serving up fresh quality beer. Let's not be mistaken from post that have mentioned that nobody of the German industry cared to check how long beer has been on a shelf in a supermarket. We here in America take pride in our fresh beer and yet we have a different style from the Euro's. So you want to bash a man again like in #1 for a dream to bring what we Americans call Delicious? How can you bash when you weren't part of the industry, business or there?

3) Stone Brewing, Respect to you for trying and Respect for admitting it was time to go. I have so much more to say but quite frankly i'm not going to, due to the fact I love Stone Beer and who and what they represent. If it wasn't for them most people wouldn't have been able to start a home brew or open a micro pub...... Just know granted you all call Greg an Arrogant person, in my humble opinion it takes an Arrogant Bastard to do what he did and will continue to do for the Craft Beer Industry right or wrong.

From this Stone Lover to Greg, Steve and all of the Stone Family of whom you employ do what you all do and keep doing what's right. Some might not understand, but the one's that do have been fans of you for many of moons. Here's to you Stone for knowing when to throw the gloves in and focus on your True Craft. Which by the way you all claim these little pit stops have, hah..... Quaterbacks get a clue this is real world business that just happened while you all critique from your parents basement couch........

 

Agree with you 100%. There is very good cheap beer in Germany, but from my experience on multiple trips the stuff that sells in volume is the super cheap, super gross stuff. Same deal in Belgium.

Edit: I see this thread has moved quite a bit since this exchange. I don't really have much more to add, but I've enjoyed the discussion.

 

deadwolfbones: I've been all around this fantastic planet and have had the luxury of drinking in great watering holes, restaurants, breweries and even a freaking Mc Donalds. But here's the thing that trips me out and bother's me the most. This company took a risk and it didn't reward, or but did it? See there's to many people that want to give their 2 cents when in reality they go to the store and don't drink craft beer, they think they are know it all of craft beers and markets and so on. Bottom line is this, they took a chance they tried and like anything in life you don't know what you're going to get until you try.

Some people want to bash and be negative in what others do because their life is worse than a sour grape. But again Kudos to Stone for attempting to do something no other craft business had the BALLS to do.

So again to all you people that what to talk smack, how's your business doing? Do you have one? Are you unhappy because mommy and daddy didn't treat you right?

Stop being rude to this company as again they tried and at least have a good partner to help in a time of need. Did you ever have one that did that for your? If so you should be thankful and not disrespectful .....

 

Yeah, given the year, between the wars and all, I though that might come up (or an even more depressing statistic).

But that'd still mean that instead of, say a lottery like the one the US had during Vietnam (I had a real high number, honest - #299), Germany drafted* based on which brewery you patronized?

*Ha, habits die hard. Almost spelled it "draughted".

 

This may be only the first step to recovery....

Overexpansion can have long lasting detrimental effects....Stone is probably big enough to weather it, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see more “restructuring” stateside.

 

When I first arrived in Bamberg and I would see the groups of septua- and octogenarian ladies out and about in town I started to ask, "why is it always groups of *women* and not men...?" and then I had an "ahhh ha" moment. really noticeable.

 

Again instead of putting Stone down for doing something nobody else tried to do, whether right or wrong at least the attempt was there. Let's wish Stone well in their future endeavors as pioneers of the craft movement and wish BrewDog all the best. This isn't about he said she said or you are all know it all's. It's about taking a risk and admitting the risk wasn't in the best interest of the overall company that he and his best friend/partner started. Let them get back to what the started and began and let's stop being people whom think they know best when in reality all the one's whom are pointing fingers and being loud mouths have never earned a paycheck higher than 20k a year. Let Stone be they did the right thing and their friend helped them out that's the end of the story. Go Stone and Go BrewDog......Cheers to the both of you

 

I believe they shut down that plan shortly before announcing the layoffs a while back.

 

Perhaps rather than say Germans don't understand sarcasm, it's that they don't understand "American" sarcasm.

I certainly learned that. I have to adjust my humor around Germans.

Have you been to Munich?

Didn't Stone expand overseas due to all the competition from other craft breweries in the US? Despite "cheap beer" being the best selling in the US.

Agreed.

That was me, and how so? Not saying I did or didn't, just trying to understand what you meant or are referring to.

Bitburger Pils is listed as having 33 IBUS, Budweiser has 7.

You're lumping these two beers together. As I mentioned a few pages back, Bitburger Pils near the source is scathingly hoppy, while still having a tasty, but complementary Pils malt profile that's distinctly German.

I don't mind Bud, but that's not Bud.

I don't think Guinness is a good analogy. I had Heineken in Amsterdam...and yup, it was Heineken.

I've had many German beers that I could compare, but I still have yet to make it to the UK. I imagine a cask of Fuller's London Pride will be FAR better than the bottled version here in the US, or even the draft version we have here.

And yes, I get it that cask vs. CO2 driven draft/bottle isn't an apples to apples comparison. But that's the point. In the UK it's served in the best possible format, at peak freshness. Here in the US, not so much.

Agreed again. I think we're mostly saying the same thing here actually.

That was also me.

 

I'm still confused after 23 years of brewing where the scale of brewing is related to quality. It's time for this mindset to go away. Or maybe we just all make 1 gallon of beer at a time, because small is apparently the epitome of quality.

 

@Roguer dude...you WAY lost me with Spaten. Assuming you've had that one only here? Still...