Pilsner Hate

In decoctions the thick part is separated and boiled, itiis primarily the grains. The enzymes are primarily in the thin (liquid) part. The boiling thick part is added back to the liquid part, which raises the temperature to the next rest step.

I have done many decoctions.

Here is a reference, he has some demo videos too.
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Decoction_Mashing

 

The heat of decoctions will darken the wort. Heat also can damage the wort. Transfers from vessel to vessel can introduce O2, not desireable. Decoctions take more time and energy.

 

I must admit this sort of thing is what immediately came to mind But I didn't want to offer any thoughts since I don't know jack about brewing let alone decoction brewing.

 

Me neither, but those brewers you were reading about do and they are in wild disagreement.

 

Damn, but it does make sense in that market.

 

Actually boiled, or brought to certain temperature? I only ever tried decoction mashing in full mash, bringing it to temp and letting it rest -- maybe why those beers never turned out as good as I wanted.

 

I’m a dummy, should’ve read a little closer Cheers!

 

True, but I named three in MA alone. Factor in that not as many craft breweries focus on Germany styles, and it makes it a bit more common.

But yes, I doubt it is common overall.

 

Boiled. For 15 minutes or longer for each decoction.

 

Occasionally? They are both full time shelf beers, they could possibly turn into dreaded shelf turds by next year but along with 100 other or so quality beers.

 

I think this will probably happen here too.

 

Agreed, these styles got the shaft when the craft beer movement got big. I'm new to this, but one of my buds told me that when trying a new craft brewery, try their Pilsner/lager first, if it's no good neither are they. In my admittedly uninformed opinion, a good Pilsner or Lager beats the hell out of an IPA any freaking day

 

We are in agreement!

Cheers!

 

While I am not rushing out to drink pilsner urquell again, I have been drinking more pilsners and lagers this year because at around here local breweries are actually brewing them this year and it has been really fun to give them a try. Hoping it continues because they are perfect for warmer days!

 

If the malt is under-modifed then decoction is a necessary step. Contemporary malts (at least the malts available for sale that I am knowledgeable about) are well modified so decoction is not a necessary step. Pilsner Urquell malts their own malt. If they choose to produce an under-modified malt then decoction is a necessary step for them. Or maybe their malt is well modified but they choose to conduct decoction for tradition reasons?

Some brewers opine that decoction has a flavor impact and others say differently.

I personally have never conducted a decoction in my homebrewing process. It adds time to the brew day and it introduces O2 (which I would prefer to not do).

Cheers!

 

I see where our thought processes cross, from the link you posted above:
"...a portion of the grain and water is scooped out of the mash tun and into the kettle or another heated vessel, where it is brought to a boil."

That portion is brought to a boil, to get it to the temp. It's not actually boiled for a length of time, as you do the wort. This was the procedure I was recalling in my old HB days.

 

No. Each step step of a decoctions will hold the boil for a period of time to burst the small starch particles. Longer boils produce more Maillard reaction products.

Look at the temperature vs. time graphs in the link. The dashed lines are for the thick part, it gets to 212F and stays there for 15 minutes in most cases.

Edit - look at the times involved for those mash schedules. Most German Brewers use a Hochkurz step mash these days. It saves energy and time.

 

In my humble opinion FW Pivo Pils when it’s fresh easily blows away anything else on the shelf. It’s not fair imo to compare a fresh beer with a 5 month old Pils Urquell, it’s just not. It’s not that PU at 5 months old is bad, it’s not, but it’s tough to overcome the fresh part. IMO again when guys reach for Pils and kinda shrug their shoulders I’d be willing to bet that the beer is over 4-5 months old. I have a hard time finding Pils under two months old here, they just don’t turn over quickly. I stopped the Urquell lately everything is 6 months or older, even at the better retailers it’s not unusual to see Oct/Nov cannings with some going back into June /July. These kinda dates figure into a good many imo time sensitive beers. It’s no wonder I can reach for about any macro and be happy with it, it didn’t cost me $12 plus for it, and it’s always the same.

 

Dale, do you ever go to local breweries to drink their Pilsners on premise? This evening I will be meeting some friends at the Sly Fox Brewpub (Phoenixville), I will be drinking some fresh Pikeland Pils tonight.

Cheers!

 

Only Red Oak is local to me, and I go there every now and then, and it’s good , but honestly I think Pivo is much better. They do sell 12 packs but they eat up a $20 bill.