Do you #SeekTheSeal when buying beer?

What would you suggest the Brewers Association do if breweries using their symbol are not following their mission statement?

 

I see the same thing, new guys come out with either no date or some odd numbers that mean nothing to joe average.

 

The seal has just slightly less relevance than the government health warning.

 

While a large majority of what I drink has the "seal", it has literally no influence on my purchase. I buy and drink what I want, when I want it period.

 

"Twice nothing is still nothing."
- Cyrano Jones

 

I have noticed that about half of the newer and or local breweries that sell NEIPA in 4 packs of pounders in the $20 price range do not date at all.

 

The only thing I look for is price and bottled/canned on date.

 

Don't allow them to use it?

 

So currently anyone using the symbol with old beer on shelves should be notified they no longer can use the symbol? Who would enforce this rule? Does the store owner report violations? Who does the reporting and what qualifies as termination? With beer in multiple states is there a limit on # of times they can have this happen then tossed? Who compensates the store owner for spending his time looking at hundreds of beers for date violations? Who absorbs that cost?

If the brewery sends out its beer fresh and the store/distributor causes the issue are they still to blame? Could the brewery not argue they followed the guide lines and sent their product out fresh, that the people down stream are to blame? Seems like a tricky area we would get into, not sure this could or would happen, probably why its not happening.

Cheers

 

The "best practices" I quoted was about date coding bottles and cans on a page even titled"BA Releases Statement on Date Lot Coding", not maintaining fresh stock at the retail or wholesale level.

 

"...it is in the best interest of craft brewers, distributors, importers, and consumers that all craft beer be identifiable by some form of a date or lot code. It is the responsibility of all brewers, big and small, to ensure that their products are clearly coded for traceability.

(A date code) Allows a degree of transparency for consumers to understand the shelf life of a beer."

If you are going to remove a brewery from their independent status due to out of date beer how then would you enforce this then? I believe you indicated that out of date beer sitting around poses a larger problem and that folks using the independent label who have beers sitting out of date are in effect violating the mission statement? So how can you remove them from this status if you did not have folks on the ground policing all beer for breaking the standard? You cannot just remove them?

You mentioned then "don't allow them to use it" I was asking you how you could not allow them to use it, based on what? Don't you have to give the brewery a reason your taking away their status?

 

No. At this point in the game, my top concern is whether or not I can trust the quality of the liquid in the package.

 

They'd prohibit a brewery that doesn't date code their beer from the using the seal. Again, that would have nothing to do with such date-coded beer on shelves beyond the suggested shelf life. Without a date code, how are consumers to know the beer is out-of-code? With a code (and only with a code) all 3 tiers as well as beer drinkers can determine the age of the beer.

I don't know how many ways I can say it, but that is NOT what I've suggested.

 

I don't know how many ways I can say it, but that is NOT what I've suggested.[/QUOTE]

You wrote:
Seems out-of-code beers are the bigger problem and, by definition, those do have date codes, otherwise - How wouldya know?

Does seem odd (well, not really I guess...) that the Brewers Association would allow the use of their seal by brewers who don't follow one of the organization's own "best practices":

I am totally confused, above your said out-of-code beers are a bigger problem? Does that not mean old? You said they have a date but are out of code? So I take that as past their shelf life?

I then asked:

What would you suggest the Brewers Association do if breweries using their symbol are not following their mission statement?

You said:
Don't allow them to use it?

I then said how would you not allow them to use it, who enforces this?

The entire conversation we had evolved around out of code beers did it not? I was trying to understand how you can begin to remove breweries from their Independent status and your indicating your only concerned about date coding but you indicated that most beers you see are date coded. I am not sure what you really saying.

Cheers.

 

Yeah, I did. But nowhere did I suggest it was a problem that the Brewers Association was responsible for or could control or somehow mandate. The "Best Practices" section* I quoted only said brewers should date code. Make the use of the "Seal" dependent on a brewery date coding their beer, and the consumer can use that info for an informed purchase. The use of a date code has contributed to beer drinkers being able to easily determine out-of-code beer - thus it's a bigger problem now.

* You continue to refer to a "Mission Statement" - do you mean this:
https://www.brewersassociation.org/brewers-association/purpose/

I did not mention that and I don't see anything specific about date-coding or freshness at the retail or wholesale level.

 

OK, I was thinking you meant their out of date beer was in effect a violation and that could warrant them being removed. We are now on same page. Yes I agree if they are not dating beers then this would indeed warrant removal. I think my wires got crossed and I thought you meant they date code but leave old crap on shelves and that is also a violation. We are on same page now.

 

The Brewers Association may not 'declare' that the plethora of old beer on retailers' shelves is a "violation" but IMO they should. Having so much old product is not good for the beer industry. A consumer who does not check dates could purchase an old beer and reach a conclusion that Independent Brewery x makes shitty beers and then decide to never purchase from that brewery ever again. Is this a good situation for that Independent Brewery (who is a member of the BA)? What if instead it was a casual beer consumer who is in the early stages of getting into craft beer and they tried a few new to them craft beers and because those beers were old they came to the conclusion that craft beer in general sucks and not something they would purchase again. Is this good for the craft beer industry?

If the Brewers Association is trying to maintain (or grow) craft beer sales (which have been slowing down lately) will the existence of an Independent Seal foster craft beer sales/growth? If they could 'fix' the old beers on retailers' shelves could that improve craft beer sales/growth?

Cheers!

 

If I was in charge of it this it would be a main focal point. I really think it is a massive problem and it does turn people off. Nothing worse than grabbing a beer and it sucks.

It is confusing to me, if I owned a brewery, it would be priority #1 that my product get consumed fresh so customers get what I intended them to get. Why take all these steps to turn out a quality product only to let it turn bad and potentially turn away future sales, at the end of the day it does hurt their bottom line no doubt.

The issue I see is that who monitors this stuff? It is such an undertaking to police and remove that its almost impossible to fix? No one wants to absorb the cost so no one fixes lol.

I think it starts at the brewery. They are the source of the product. They need to set a standard and enforce it and doing so should be factored into their expenses. This is the only way, if you want to fix it begin at the source. If you want to make beer then you need to factor in all costs and that means pulling old stock and disposing of it, passing the buck is sort of a cop out.

 

Bingo!

The brewery does not want to pay for the returned beer. The Wholesale distributor does not want to pay for the returned beer.

There are financial consequences to the brewery in terms of future sales if consumers are 'turned off' by bad/old beer.

There is no doubt that this is a tough problem to solve but if beer industry folks just 'stick their heads in the sand' and ignore it there will be financial consequences. What I am seeing in my area is increased sales by small, local breweries and to my mind the factor of freshness is a BIG selling point here. If the larger, distributing breweries (along with the other elements of the supply chain) do not properly address this competition there were be ever more consolidation/contraction of the businesses. Every 4/6 pack that is purchased at a small, brewery (or associated satellite tasting room) means lost revenue to all three elements of the supply chain (breweries, Wholesale Distributors, Beer Retailers).

Cheers!

 

I could not agree more and see the same here. People are flocking local breweries/bottle shops that promote fresh, promote all the things we talk about. That does impact the big boys(larger breweries) no matter what they say. When I go out and get 4 packs from my local guys I don't spend my cash on the others, that is hurting their bottom line. Take that by large masses of like minded people and soon the bubble pops.

I really wish breweries listened because this is one of the largest problems they face and one of the most critical. If they were smart they would take the hit now, fix the issue and move forward. Like you said, putting their heads in the sand and pointing fingers is not working. Even if they cut distribution and focused more on a smaller footprint in order to offset the costs that is just what you need to do.

What people need to ask breweries is this. Do you want your OLD beer everywhere and no one drinks it or thinks it sucks. Or do you want your FRESH beer in a smaller market and folks seek it out and praise it for being so good.

Cheers