Brewed by date vs. Best by date

I don't understand what your asking? An IPA is more fresh than another brewery, I am not following you? Are you indicating you want a brewed on date? I am not sure.

 

Simple, but it may be new information. Some breweries use a bottling line that allows significantly less packaged oxygen in the bottle that other bottling lines. The brewerys that use the first have less oxygen in the package and so the beer ages more slowly than the beer from the other brewery that uses the older bottling line.

While it's not completely linear, basically Oxygen contributes to staling. Package less oxygen with the beer and it stays fresher longer.

My problem is that not knowing which type of bottling line is in use at a brewery means I could be getting something that ages more slowly than something else.

(This completely ignores things like the fact that some canning lines don't keep out oxygen for shit and the packages all look the same on the outside except for the labels. Which cans can I trust? There's a big gamble...)

So basically I was hoping you'd figured out a way to deal with that uncertainty....

 

I never actually gave it a thought lol. I don't go that deep into the issue. I simply want to know when a beer hits the can, prior to that is not really a concern I have or had. My focus as a consumer is knowing when the beer was canned so I can determine how long its been on a shelf. If consumers have a can date they can avoid 12 mos old IPA and get one that is 2 mos old etc. I think consumers deserve this simple right so they can purchase products that taste good.

I am still confused with your entire question, I cannot recall anyone asking for this information or wanting so much detail from a brewery, part of me thinks your not being serious so we will leave it at that.

 

No, serious indeed. If consumers have a freshness date they can also avoid a 12 mos old IPA too.

I'm concerned about what happens to the beer after it is in the can or bottled and that isn't giving us the full picture. (A bottled on date is a bit like saying I just got married, doesn't help predict when or if the marrage will bust up.)

Just as I'm concerned about how the beer is stored and handled between the time the distributor picks it up at the brewery and delivers it to the retailer. Lots of things can affect the freshness in the can or bottle before it gets to me. Lots of times the packaged on date is misleading. I'm a freshness freak and I just don't like opening a can or bottle and finding it has faded from its peak flavors.

But don't bother, thats me and clearly not a lot of other people so I'll say bye.

 

I totally understand your desire for a fresh product. I think most here do want this from beer. I have had beers fresh and the same beer old and its not great when older, least for my tastes. I also agree that how is stored, shipped, etc. play a role in its lifespan. This is why I love my local guys, they insist their beer be shipped and stored cold and drank fresh. They say it on their can and in person, they want consumers to enjoy their creations as they enjoy them.
With that said I am not sure you will ever get the entire industry to give more info than a canned on or best buy date. I just cannot see how they could? How can you convey to a consumer these factors?
On a positive note I see most smaller, local craft breweries (In and Out of state) pushing for their beer to be shipped and stored cold and drank as soon as possible and they also date the cans.

Maybe you can give me some information on how a brewery can inform us of oxygen levels, storage, etc. I see what you want but I cannot see how its provided.

Cheers

 

Simple, they could put it on the packaging, if in fact they ever bother to measure it in the first place. Some canned beers are packaged by a moble canning line which can easily allow too much oxygen and the brewery doesn't know much except they have can's to distribute.

I expect they won't ever put it on, "Who cares?"

I've been burned enough by spending money on new beers from brand new breweries I think I may give up supporting local by trying new beers. I've got enough variety in my trusted line up it's becoming fruitless to keep looking....

Thanks.

 

That sucks, I have not ran into that with my local guys. Everyone here is cranking out new stuff or their old favorites and its always amazing and fresh. I think the main player for my area is that most local breweries are ran by folks serious about it. The head brewers and owners are in this for the long haul and wan their product to be world class.
I think the issue for a lot of small, local new craft guys elsewhere are the ones in it for the money wave. There are a lot of folks trying to cash in on this and their beer is not great, they don't have the skills, they just want to tag it Juicy, Hazy, Milkshake, etc. and price it at $24 a four pack and dump. These guys are putting out crap because they are not skilled they are investors looking to make money. My take is you have a shit load of breweries fronting as breweries and are owned by folks with a lot of disposable income looking for an investment.

 

I think it’s well known that SN canning techniques tend to reduce the Oxygen in the package. Not sure how would would quantify that though, hell getting them to put a date on the van is trouble enough. But I only know that about SN from this site, but it is not important part of preserving the product.

 

Well, too be honest it’s almost none if any physically local to this particular area. These are local in the sense they started and grew somewhere else physically local and just appeared here as one of their early toe in the water shots at expansion “out of town”. So local in the sense of prior distribution.

 

Ah, I that makes sense. The guys I am drinking and referring to are not sending out of state and keep tight control on who gets their beer etc. I never in a million years would have imagined AZ to have a thriving and awesome beer scene. I hate the hot weather but hot dam if we don't have some killer breweries. I think a big demand is coming from so many moving here to escape the cold weather. We have a massive influx of people come winter and with it comes $$. AZ always needs cold beer year round to make up for the lack of snow lol.

 

In most cases I am happy with the package date and from there I can figure out for myself if the beer is likely to be fresh. A beer sitting in a cooler will likely be fresh longer than a beer sitting on a shelf or in a sunny window. I am not as comfortable with "best by dates" because many brewers have very optimistic ideas about how long their beer is fresh. Best by dates also do not take into account how the beer has been treated from when it left to brewery to when it landed in my shopping cart. For many styles of beer "brew date" is irrelevant. Bottom line - I will take any date at all if they let me know what it is. Too many brewers either don't use any date or have some code.

 

To sum up:
Every brewery should put a "Packaged On Date" on all their beers.
But because of money, this won't happen.

Side note: I wish distributors and anyone in the business of selling/distributing beer would store their hoppy beers cold. Sadly, this doesn't look like it will happen either.

 

Can you give an idea of how bottled on date helps knowing what happens in transit? I find them equally uninformative on that point.

 

From reading this thread as well as others Regarding Freshness, it seems BAs mostly just want the ability to use their own "knowledge" of beer or comfort level regarding how certain styles age to judge freshness using an industry adopted standard of dating regardless of any other infinite variables that could make the beer age longer and stay fresh or not last very long at all. The brewers and breweries don't get to decide whats "fresh" is the sentiment I'm getting because there are no brewing standards that would make it easy to dial in the exact time frame a particular beer will turn or what distributor employs what methods of storage, transport and handling at what temperatures. Since this wouldn't be an easy problem to solve industry wide in a way that would satisfy everyone, BAs are calling for a dating system that would allow the individual to choose using whatever systems they deem fit. Did I get that right?

 

Caveat--Not all BAs are in that en masse group.

 

Agreed and fixed.

 

It seems to me it would make it harder for them to sell old beer, which they seem to do often. ....or did you mean help "prevent" them from selling old beer.?

 

This is why self distribution can be invaluable, there’s a few NC breweries who do just this. They mandate to carry their beer they must be kept cold, and they check and if you get caught they pull their product from your store. To do this universally with any brewery with a large footprint would prove to be mostly impossible, but your still right that would be optimal.

 

Since you seem to be more concerned about this than anybody, instead of asking other people who would simply be satisfied knowing when their beer was packaged or is best to drink by, can you give an example of how the consumer could be better informed on what happens to a beer in transit? You have already mentioned you would like to see oxygen levels at the bottling/canning line listed. I don't see that happening anytime soon. What else would you like? Do you want documentation of storage conditions on every bottle from the brewery, distributor, and retailer every time the beer changes hands, like it's a laboratory sample? The food you eat isn't even required to have that level of info available to the consumer.

If you are that concerned about freshness, I recommend you only drink at brewery taprooms so that you can get it directly from the source. My strategy relating to freshness is simple: I look for beer with a "brewed on" or "best before" date on it and use my own judgement. If it doesn't have a date I most likely won't buy it. Seems to work just fine. I rarely get burned by bad beer.