Let's talk about distribution

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by Beer_Stan, Aug 9, 2019.

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  1. Beer_Stan

    Beer_Stan Initiate (0) Mar 15, 2014 California
    Trader

    I operate a store in Long Beach and order lots of product through Lime Ventures, Celebrated Ales/Artisan Distributing and of course others and I've noticed a slew of breweries who are down in San Diego skipping the entirety of LA/OC and everything in between SD and San Francisco/NorCal for certain products. I personally see it as a slight and haven't heard anything back from any of the breweries I've asked about this directly.

    For example Mikkeller SD sells an ok amount of their overall catalog through Stone Distributing. Basic offerings like Windy Hills, Breakfast stout and the occasional not so special release. However through an entirely different distribution arm they send out very unique and specialty beers not available anywhere except NorCal.

    Why would a brewery skip out on an entire market like this? It doesn't seem to make sense the way that I'm looking at it so I'm looking for some perspective. It's hard not having answers for myself and customers who are wondering why brewery releases aren't available in an area closer to the brewery while friends up north are getting them just fine.
     
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  2. Xul

    Xul Pooh-Bah (2,139) May 18, 2008 California
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    You're not going to get very many concrete answers on a forum that's largely consumer-oriented. If you really want info, I'd suggest hitting one of the industry-oriented forums out there and bringing it up.
     
  3. Beer_Stan

    Beer_Stan Initiate (0) Mar 15, 2014 California
    Trader

    Funny you mentioned that as I happen to know theres more than a few industry folks here on this forum and brought it to the attention of @Todd that an industry sub forum might be a good idea.
     
  4. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Grand Pooh-Bah (3,966) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I'm gonna offer a not concrete offer for you. Breweries might value getting small allocations further afield with the idea that committed LA/OC consumers will already know them while they might be able to capture some valuable beer geek attention in NorCal.
    Beyond that my limited interaction with beer distribution has taught me that it's quite the labyrinthine endeavor and not for the faint of heart
     
  5. CraftyAF

    CraftyAF Initiate (0) Feb 12, 2017 California

    A reason to skip out on distro in Southern California is force consumers into taprooms. However Stone will be distributing MIkkeller brewery release beers towards the end of the year.

    There are more reasons. But that's a main one.
     
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  6. Beer_Stan

    Beer_Stan Initiate (0) Mar 15, 2014 California
    Trader

    Care to elaborate?
     
  7. anvindr

    anvindr Zealot (608) Jan 6, 2016 California
    Trader

    maybe they have seen stronger sales in the SF area compared to LA....
     
  8. Beer_Stan

    Beer_Stan Initiate (0) Mar 15, 2014 California
    Trader

    I find that hard to believe when they are skipping all of socal and the central coast for San Fran and Oakland
     
  9. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    Breaking into a market requires lots of time, money and patience. And after all the effort there is no guarantee that the beer will sell well or sell well enough at least. So it is not a casual decision. Once a beer is placed everyone involved needs to be assured that the pipeline is reliable. Given that the craft market seems to change weekly that is a big question mark.

    But forget all that.

    Dealing with distributors is notoriously difficult and I believe the typical brewer/owner looks forward to that exercise as much as the typical person tolerates buying a car from the dealership.
    I think for a lot of successful craft breweries they consider themselves fortunate if they have a reliable marketplace to sell their beer. It's not like the macros where they must always sell sell sell at every last account every day. So as with so many other things in the beer world, blame the macros.

    Cheers
     
  10. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,071) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Mod Team BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    A couple of the reasons that I have seen where things like this occur are:
    1. Amount of product required to serve a specific market and brewing capacity (does LA/OC/Central Coast require more product than SF/Oakland?)
    2. Logistics/Cost for delivery - it is cheaper to send to a relatively small geographic location than a larger one.
    3. How crowded is the market for these types of beer/how competitive (does the LA/OC/Central Coast have more breweries with competitive offerings in the styles?)
     
  11. Beer_Stan

    Beer_Stan Initiate (0) Mar 15, 2014 California
    Trader

    If I could show you in any easy way, a screen shot of the beers made available by some of the breweries I deal with(Mikkeller SD being my prime example), It would be easier to understand why it's such an issue for me. I hear some points being made about trying to drive other locals in this market into tap rooms but thats not enough of an excuse to me as to why they send most of their product to another entire market. Most of the stuff I see sent is high end well aged product and sure it could be small batch and sure they could boast a larger asking price up there. But a LOT of distributors do this and not just breweries. I see spirits distributors and wine as well shown in the pricing booklets we buyers get ahold of and there's plenty of asterisks saying "Nor. Cal ONLY." I just don't get it because it's not like San Fran is better in anyway in terms of disposable income, culture, and desire for said products any more than any of the omitted areas. Since you're from NC, imagine a brewery in your pretty immediate area sold you guys all of their mass made beer, but sold all of their specialty in SC, completely skipping over your guys even though they distro just fine. The brewery posts the releases online and your customers are asking why you cant get the product. I've sent emails asking these questions to the companies that I've seen do this, before trying to get a thread started here, but have never heard anything back from them.
     
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  12. Joe13

    Joe13 Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2018 New Jersey

    I agree with Stevepat, I think its just so the brewery can capture the consumers who are further away, while the consumers who live closer can drive to the brewery for these special releases.
    I'm also sure each brewery has their own reasons.
    Distributors are like gangs, they have a ton of different licenses and own "turf" of where they can sell. That may be some sort of factor too. Possibly their contract with Stone is just for staple beers. Just some thoughts I'm throwing out.
     
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  13. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,071) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Mod Team BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I completely understand the situation as a former NYC guy - some breweries/distributors only brought specific products into NYC, others only the rest of NY state.
     
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  14. Bitterbill

    Bitterbill Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,036) Sep 14, 2002 Wyoming
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    I kinda like the limited, maybe once distribution from breweries that give me a taste of their beers. For instance, Liquor Shed got a small drop of beers from Walnut River in El Dorado in Kansas. Fresh and most likely to sell out before the beer goes beyond its best by date, whatever that is as I see no dating on their cans
     
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  15. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Apologies if this duplicates someone else.

    I'd suggest that it might involve either or both of two factors. One is a capacity limitation. RR gets all the way to Philly and we seem to be the only distro site east of Denver. Why? Because of a friendship between the brewer and a local Bar owner and trust in a distributor who is in fact fairly responsible in treating those beers as the brewer requests. RR is in a position to "request" of their distributor that their beers not go anlonger to a particular retailer not be supplied in the future who fails to handle their beers.

    So to enter a new distro area a responsible brewer will have enough capacity to keep suppling existing customers while they expand distro. Also to go into a new area they need to be willing to sign a contract with a distributor. If there is no distributor in you area the trust to handle their beers, why go there.

    Don't know if this applies to your particular case, but it has been the case before so....
     
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  16. Sparty93

    Sparty93 Devotee (399) Aug 29, 2013 Michigan

    I don't know the logistics of CA beer, but could the two regions have different distributors? As someone else previously mentioned, I think most small/mid sized breweries enjoy dealing with distributors about as much as they enjoy going to the dentist. Some distributors can be notoriously difficult to deal with, and I think we'd all be shocked at the lack of detailed knowledge some of them display in their portfolios. It's been a few years, but I remember speaking to one bottle shop near me that was tempted to refuse any products from a particular distributor because they were an older company that really didn't understand the nuances of storage/shipping conditions of various styles, so quality and freshness was a constant argument (this IPA is 6 months old and warm, I'm not wasting shelf space on it). I imagine a brewery might have the same concerns if they couldn't trust a distributor to handle their products in a reliable manner.
     
  17. rgordon

    rgordon Pooh-Bah (2,701) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Having been a distributor I can tell you that is likely due to limited supply to begin with. I used to sell some very sought after beers and serviced all of North Carolina. I had to allocate products all of the time and I did take care of my best customers. There were always pissed off customers thinking that they deserved the lion's share. I was as fair as I could be. I even sold Cantillon by the bottle to spread it around as much as possible. That's one possibility..
     
  18. HouseofWortship

    HouseofWortship Pooh-Bah (2,735) May 3, 2016 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I can answer this- Why would anyone in the LA/OC area want to drink anything other than Bottle Logic, Monkish and Modern Times? If I'm a SD area brewer I know I'm just going to be the Jan Brady of that market.
     
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  19. islay

    islay Savant (1,211) Jan 6, 2008 Minnesota

    I've always gotten the impression that LA is a much more immature market than San Diego or the Bay Area. LA consumers seem to ape the trends of the northeastern United States rather than follow California's own much longer and deeper-established beer culture and traditions (hence the outsized popularity of the likes of Monkish, Three Chiefs, and Bottle Logic). If the San Diego breweries skipping distribution in the LA area tend to be making more sophisticated fare, I could easily see them not going to the trouble of trying to establish themselves in a market that they have reason to believe won't appreciate them.
     
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  20. Beer_Stan

    Beer_Stan Initiate (0) Mar 15, 2014 California
    Trader

    I could understand this sentiment whole heartedly but what I've learned is that those who chose to do it are wrong if they think (not just) LA wouldn't appreciate the beer. Yes, we unfortunately are the Den of The Hype Beasts but much more savvy beer connoisseurs live here than that. I meet them constantly.
     
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