Bringing issues up with the brewer you work for

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by Joe13, Aug 19, 2019.

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  1. Joe13

    Joe13 Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2018 New Jersey

    OK, so I need some advice from all of you... I have a friend who works at a brewery, and said friend definitely knows his beer and has a pretty solid foundation on the basics. He has bar-tended in the past, worked at craft beer retail stores etc. for years prior to this job at the brewery.
    Now the brewery he works for is turning out some really bad beer. I mean really bad. But beyond that are some technical issues at the brewery that the brewer tends to just ignore. Some issues include: Multiple beers that are infected, yet still sold. Gas lines are way off, either pouring all foam, or no head at all. The brewer consistently says "oh I just need to add more pressure to this keg". (shouldn't you only have to pressurize a keg once?)
    He will even tell the bartenders to pour the beer into a large jug first and then pour into glasses from there, esp. when pouring growlers. Now my friend knows to avoid doing that, and can pour the beer correctly into a growler but will take him a lot of time. Some beers even have to be poured behind closed doors inside the walk-in fridge as they aren't connected to any tap line. (big no-no to me. I would never accept a drink that I didn't see being poured).
    They are extremely disorganized in many ways. They never close when they have to as they will allow patrons to remain inside after last call, even if they're not serving anymore making my friend lose money, and stay later than intended when he works a full time day job the following morning. Many of the patrons also comment about the brewery on yelp and such about how none of the bartenders know what they're doing. My friend is literally the only one who actually knows and cares about beer there, while the other bartenders could care less and are just there for a pay stub. My friend feels like maybe he could be ruining his reputation within the industry he is trying to build a career in, but for now, the money is decent. I guess money does talk.

    My question is, should my friend bring up these issues with the brewer? And if so, how do you go about telling someone there business needs some major changes if they want to last as a neighborhood brewery?
    I'm sure I am leaving out many details, and will add as I think of some, but this is the gist of it all. Also I am sorry if my wording here seems jumbled and all over the place. Hopefully it makes enough sense to understand.
    Thanks!
     
  2. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Having been part of a couple of small businesses, and If it were me, I'd advise my friend to get a new part time job and walk away. I don't think there's a thing he could accomplish with out a lot of hassle, and I mean a lot.

    Sounds to me as though the folks who started the place had no idea of how to create a business plan and then follow and/or modify it or even had any idea of it takes to run a small business that depends on customer satisfaction and good will. I'd suggest that the brewery was already doomed before it opened. They should already be monitoring public comments, etc. fine tuning the beer. A combination if poor brewing and poor management is an almost sure loser when things implode. I'd even bet they don't have any real accounting keep track of cash flow and debts.
     
    #2 drtth, Aug 19, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  3. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    If that is really the case your friend would be best off finding another job (sooner rather than later).
    There is no easy answer here since there are lots of personal relationship dynamics here. Obviously your friend has been reticent to have this conversation already (and it is already long overdue). Again I will circle back to it likely is best that your friend find another brewery to work for.

    Maybe @NeroFiddled can provide 'better' input here?

    Cheers!
     
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  4. StJamesGate

    StJamesGate Grand Pooh-Bah (3,766) Oct 8, 2007 New York
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Prove it with numbers.

    There are ways to measure for diacetyl, polyphenols, etc.
    Any brewery that's not a glorified homebrew setup should be doing at least some quality control tests (since it sounds like they don't have anyone with a trained palate.)
    Let your friend objectively show the beer is bad.

    But this will mean your friend renegotiating his role.
    It can work: a friend of mine consults for a brewery who are mediocre, but know they need to improve.
    If your friend can't get them to listen - and it doesn't sound promising - he should just move on.
     
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  5. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Assuming that the brewer isn't also the owner, there's a second option to report these issues if telling the brewer directly doesn't get anywhere. No one likes to go around a co-worker to try to fix things, but do it now or walk away to another job.
     
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  6. Joe13

    Joe13 Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2018 New Jersey

    I should have stated that the brewer is the owner. Him and his wife own. The brewer just wants to brew though and not deal with anything, and leaves everything else up to his wife who knows absolutely nothing about beer, nor hospitality.

    The one time my friend did say something about a beer, (their pilsner being extremely hazy and not consistent with prior batches, and a saison not exactly fitting to style characteristics) the brewer sort of just made a face and walked away. Seems like maybe the brewer knows things are messed up, but is in extreme denial. The brewer seems to be going after people who don't know beer and don't know otherwise, so all of his sales come from them...for now.

    He has mentioned possibly asking them if he can consult for them.
     
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  7. HouseofWortship

    HouseofWortship Pooh-Bah (2,735) May 3, 2016 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Step 1- Secure new job offer
    Step 2- Tell current owner you can fix the issues, but he has to allow you to do so and maybe even pay your more and give you more responsibility.
    Step 3- Listen to current owner's response
    Step 4- Stay or leave job
     
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  8. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Well the decision becomes to walk out to a new job or to potentially start a family marital conflict. :wink:
     
  9. Joe13

    Joe13 Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2018 New Jersey

    I don't think my friend knows how to fix all the issues per se. He just knows there are many issues that need to be addressed. He doesn't know how to fix gas lines at least, but knows something is wrong, and knows there are people out there who do know how to fix it and could be hired to do so. He is aware of the various reasons a beer may be shooting out straight foam. My friend is not a trained brewer, and has only dabbled in home-brewing, but has a trained palate and understands style characteristics.
    I think his best bet is to walk away too, and just let them know they need to make changes and figure out how they are going to do so. It sucks when people are super nice and you want to see them succeed but they're unwilling to make certain changes that will better their business.
    The job is easy for him, and he makes decent money some how, but its super frustrating when you cant even pour a beer correctly, or it takes 20minutes to get a 4 glass flight set up.

    From the sounds of it, this has already started. I've actually seen the two arguing in the tap room in front of customers. On this particular day it was because the brewer wanted to start canning, and the wife was saying they weren't ready. She's right.
     
  10. AZBeerDude72

    AZBeerDude72 Initiate (0) Jun 10, 2016 Arizona

    Sounds like your friend needs to get the heck out of there and work for a brewery that knows what it is doing. I would not waste my time on this one. They are aware of what is wrong and it sounds like they don't really care to fix, that is a red flag. I would not want my name associated with a crap place I would leave fast.
    Cheers
     
  11. islay

    islay Savant (1,211) Jan 6, 2008 Minnesota

    If I were your friend, I'd identify the more reasonable of the two owners (the husband or the wife) and talk to that person one-on-one (to avoid embarrassment), show him or her some of the Yelp and other negative feedback, and say that I agree that there are some concrete steps that we can take to improve. I'd keep the focus on the hospitality side and best serving practices, your friend's area of subject matter expertise, at least initially, so as not to cause offense about the beer and so that your friend can present himself as the potential savior and not just another asshole with an opinion. Hopefully a better focus on process, the customer experience, and company culture would trickle into improved beer down the line, and if ownership proves receptive to constructive criticism, a beer-based critique could be a later step.

    I'd try to keep the conversation positive and productive as much as possible; "This is where and how we can improve so you (the owner) can make more money and be more highly regarded going forward," not, "This is why we suck." I'd come prepared with a some well-formulated ideas and volunteer to be the one to lead their implementation. If he plays his cards right, your friend may be able to take on a bigger role that hopefully eventually would turn into a formal promotion and raise as well as produce a big win to put on his resume.

    A huge caveat is I'd go this route if and only if I were willing to lose my job in the effort. This sounds like a mismanaged company with emotional ownership, and I wouldn't count on criticism, even constructive criticism, going over well.
     
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  12. Squire

    Squire Grand Pooh-Bah (4,385) Jul 16, 2015 Mississippi
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I've seen this happen before with small businesses that are owner managed. Even if they purchase a going operation they still must learn how to operate it if they wish to stay in business. Unfortunately some of these folks don't realize the ship is sinking until they're ankle deep in water while standing on the deck.
     
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  13. ElChuques

    ElChuques Initiate (0) Oct 8, 2014 Arkansas

    I would just cut bait. The owners seem to be treating it as a hobby, so I doubt they’ll make any changes. They might stay open for a year or two at that rate.

    I’d also second what @HouseofWortship said above. Secure leverage and contingency before proceeding.
     
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  14. paulys55

    paulys55 Initiate (0) Aug 2, 2010 Pennsylvania

    Definitely sounds like the owner(s) were not really qualified to run the business. Brewing beer and running a business are two different things. Some can do both but not many. Personally, if it were me, I would find another gig (if your friend is as good as you say, he shouldn't have trouble finding another good job). An interesting experiment would be to send an anonymous email (say from a concerned customer) addressing the issues and then see if anything is said or done.
     
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  15. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey

    Your friend should find another job ASAP!
     
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  16. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Have you had these beers? What are your impressions of them?

    Is there a sufficient base of customers who are happy/satisfied with the quality of these existing beers? If the answer to this question is "yes" then strictly from a business sales perspective it could be argued that there is not a big problem here (to be fixed). I would argue 'back' that perhaps sales would be even better if the beer quality was improved.

    It is ultimately up to the owner/brewer to decide here.

    If your friend is concerned about his reputation within the brewing industry then leaving is the 'answer' here. Once a brewer has been associated with producing poor quality beer this is a reputation that is difficult to overcome.

    Cheers!
     
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  17. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey

    Are you speaking of a brewery in Cranford?
     
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  18. honkey

    honkey Maven (1,350) Aug 28, 2010 Arizona
    Trader

    Honestly, not trying to be rude, it is with rare exception that a bartender gets any kind of reputation positive or negative. Word might spread if you’re terrible to customers, but even the best bar manager will not really get recognition. Your friend will almost definitely not have their reputation hurt by bartending at a brewery that serves shitty beer. That said, in their position, if the brewer doesn’t care to fix it, why should your friend care to work there? No way the owners don’t already know that there’s a problem unless they’re seriously aloof, but there’s a good chance that the owners aren’t giving the brewer the tools he needs to fix the problem and the brewer has had his soul crushed working there... it happens all the time. Get out. No reason to go down with the ship.
     
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  19. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Weedy, the owner is the brewer as has been mentioned above (post #6)

    "I should have stated that the brewer is the owner."

    Cheers!

    P.S. In another thread there was discussion about the Ayinger lagering process (how long and at what temperature), do you have any knowledge here?
     
  20. Joe13

    Joe13 Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2018 New Jersey

    This is great, I will pass this along. Thank you!
     
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