Trade Value Thread (2019)

Thanks, but I have already completed trade for them.

 

I've heard it is very very good. Again though, I'd be shocked if someone straight up does prop 18. You will probably need something extra. I have not seen one of the people asking for 100 close in the last week.

 

What did you end up trading if you don't mind me asking?

 

Will send ya a message

 

I'd have to agree with you. As long as you don't explicitly say you want cash for it, I see no problem in saying "this has a 100 trade value". We aren't on facebook so it's not like someone is going to delete the threads if we have $ signs.

 

On point number 2... isn't that the entire point of figuring out trade value? If I have a bottle that costs me 25 dollars, but only 400 other people in the world have it, and thousands of people want to try it, that means I'm going to have people willing to give more up to get it. It doesn't matter how much anyone paid for a bottle. All that matters is how much other people are willing to pay for it. Saying "most people that actually want this are willing to pay $200 for it" is no different than saying it's worth one VRU,

 

This all day!

 

Sounds like patience is the way to go. I suppose it might be more rare than a prop 18, but I'm wondering if it's a better beer.

 

I like this thread. They’re are a lot of people on here who provide great insight on things I have no idea about in terms of trades and value.

That said, screw secondary. I’ve never looked at it, wouldn’t know where to find it, but if you come to me about a trade I posted and start quoting secondary, well, have a good day.

If you have a beer I want and I have a beer you want, we make it work. That’s how it should be, imo. I’m not worried about winning or squeezing every last ounce out of a trade from someone because of perceived value. That’s a shitty way to go about this.

I’ve completed plenty of trades, drank plenty of great beer, and I’ve never had to resort or rely on the secondary market to get there.

Cheers.

 

This thread is based on the secondary market, even when money isn't explicitly involved. You can be against buying and selling beers at the value that the market demands and still be okay with the secondary market (as everyone in this thread presumably is). The "secondary market" is merely the existence of an after-market where goods (beer) are exchanged at a rate distinct from their primary (the original cost) value due to factors like demand, supply, taste, etc... I'm not at all meaning to call you out personally or trying to argue, I just wanted to clarify the meaning of "secondary" because I could very easily see two conversations going on in this thread with both sides talking past one another arising simply out of a misunderstanding of terminology.

 

I don't think that is really true. A lot of people come to this thread and quote specific trades that they would like to make. Then people comment on them based on other trades that they have seen completed. Simply put if people have seen Beer A trade for Beer B multiple times and at the same time have seen Beer A trade for Beer C multiple times then most would confidently say that Beer B would trade for Beer C without any discussion/implication of secondary. I feel most people like to get into secondary discussions when they don't have a particular trade in mind and are just looking to get the most out of their beer in a trade regardless of the beers involved.

 

What you're describing is the secondary market, that was my entire point. "Secondary" doesn't refer solely to "money exchange for goods," it's "secondary" because participants are assigning a value to the entity that's divorced from the original price.

 

So then you agree that $$$ don't need to be quoted then correct?

 

Sure, they don't "need" to be by any means. It doesn't make sense to outlaw it, though. My point earlier was that the thin veil of using "VRU" seems a little silly and pointless given that it's inaccurate and that this thread exists as a function of the secondary (read: not solely money) market either way.

 

I don’t feel like you called me out. I stated my opinion. Secondary in whatever conversation won’t impact the way I go about trading.

 

I mean... it necessarily does impact the way you go about trading though, because the act of trading is an involvement in the secondary market. It can be totally divorced from money (or only dependent on primary cost). That was my point.

 

Cool. Not getting in a back in forth. Cheers.

 

First off, I agree with you that dancing around monetary values with VRUs is pretty dumb, though to be honest I'm not really a fan of using VRUs in the first place.

I think referring to beers in terms of some of the highest values they have been sold at does encourage profiteering. Not just profiteering of the resellers, but profiteering in trading too. Instead of just trading good and rare beer for good and rare beer, people become fixated on these values, making sure they are squeezing every last penny of value out of their beer. If someone believes their beer is worth $200, even if they acquired it with zero effort and only paid $20 for it, they're going to be a lot less likely to give it up for some "lesser" beers. A beer that costs $20, that's something something some people would throw in as an extra. $200, now wait a minute, better hold out for something really good.

By quoting secondary it's saying that the outcomes of the razzlers/profiteers/flippers is the right way to determine what's a fair trade. The resale market is driven by profiteering, plain and simple. Sell for the most possible money. Motivations for trading on the other hand are different. We don't trade simply to get the best beer possible. While that is a motivation, we also trade to build friendships, or just to be nice and hook someone else up with good beer. By focusing on secondary sales as a metric, we're focusing on the profiteering aspect and ignoring all the other factors that make a good trade. That absolutely encourages people to approach trading with a profiteering mindset.

Further, quoting secondary sales makes it come across as more acceptable. If someone approves of the metric that is stemmed from the resellers, there is some implied approval of other things they are doing whether that is the case or not (and as you state is not the case for you personally). The more someone sees secondary values mentioned, the more people assume secondary sales must be occurring. And if people think something is occurring on a regular basis, it becomes less taboo, more generally accepted, and thus more encouraged.

 

Point number 2 is talking about how secondary values are a poor metric for giving trade advice. The example I used (NC + FO for Pinot Gris) is a trade that I think lines up with resale values (I'm no expert in them so maybe its off haha), but never would actually happen in a real trade.

I agree with you that there's more to trading than just retail values. You also have to take bottle counts, taste, reputation, and general demand into account to actually get a trade done. But I don't think secondary value is a good metric, trading is a lot more complicated than that.

Is citing ultra-specific to the decimal place VRUs much better? Not a huge difference, and as I mention in the post above I'm not much of a fan of going into detailed VRUs, but at least it has people thinking of beers as beers rather than some commodity that can make them some extra cash. Plus this small change doesn't normalize the resell market as much.

 

But you have relied on secondary... because you wouldn't offer or someone else wouldn't offer a beer that is worth far more on secondary than yours. If you had a BA abraxas and just hated it, would you trade it to someone for a 25 dollar stout that you do like that is sitting on the shelves at binnys?

You may not directly quote secondary but your gauge for what is/isn't an acceptable trade is based on secondary values.