Diacetyl bad?

I too like a bit of diacetyl in some beers. Northern English brown ale comes to mind. I like it in a dark mild as well. And I wouldn't say that you're really "out of the ordinary" or off base, but yes, somewhat in the minority. I love Brettanomycies in both beer and wine, but say that to a wine person and they'll look at you like you've got three heads. At one time Brett was in everything and people liked it, but then we got wise - maybe too wise! I'm only partially kidding on that. We wouldn't have clean beers if we didn't get rid of the oddities, but that doesn't mean they can't be useful in some beers. So for me, being "out of the ordinary" just means that you're following what you like, not what you've been told to like.

 

Yes bad --berry bad !!! Some people like it and I know in some English style beers, people say it is desirable but I am really sensitive to it and hate it. Try Shipyard beers --they may be to your liking.

 

Very good point, all of those Alan Pugsley systems that were using Ringwood yeast put out similar beers and a lot of them did have a diacetyl component, but it was the overall yeast that I hated, not the minor diacetyl they had when properly fermented.

 

Czech Pilsners often have it. It isn't out of the ordinary in some English ales. I remember some Wychwood beers having. From memory I think it's considered "acceptable" in Scottish ales, although I don't know of any offhand.

On the other end of the spectrum, if you have any sub-par small breweries in your area - give their pale ales and IPA's a shot...

 

You know that is true @NeroFiddled and you gotta wonder about speeding up the aging time which is what his system was intended to do. Quicker to market. Or at least thats how I understood what I have read about it. Seems to me that speeding up this process goes against the very nature from which good food and drink are created. Not saying some things can't be good when they are quick and easy but for maximum depth and complexity--it always seems to take time

 

Ehhhh, yeah, I don't think you want to start mixing the term lagering in with ales, let's just call it aging or conditioning, but YES, a major part of the Pugsley sales pitch was that you could turn whatever volume of beer over in so many days, backed by dollar figures on what you could sell. I still don't like Ringwoood yeast. If you want to crank beers out you can do that with Chico or California ale yeast as well - of course they weren't around back then. (Or they were, but only at Sierra Nevada).

 

I too remember a watery dark Wychwoood beer where the touch of diacetyl was the only saving grace.

 

I edited it to aging--tks for the correction.

 

Ringwood. Yeeech

 

Scottish Ales and Scotch Ale/Wee Heavys can have some movie popcorn butter flavor from diacetyl, acceptable in moderation. In an IPA it would be considered by many to be a flaw.

 

It is only an off-flavor if you don't intend for it to be there.
That said, the answer to your question is, generally, yes. Though there are some styles were a bit of diacetyl is permissible. As stated above, some English ales, and Czech Pils are notable examples.

 

Even if the yeast was treated 'properly' to permit it to 'clean up' the diacetyl produced during the primary fermentation (i.e., sufficient conditioning time after the FG was reached)?

Cheers!

 

According to the Beer Judge Certification Program 2015 style guidelines diacetyl is appropriate (usually at low levels) but not necessarily required in Bohemian Pilsener, Standard/Ordinary Bitter, Special/Best/Premium Bitter, Extra Special/Strong Bitter, Scottish Export Ale, Strong Scotch Ale, American Brown Ale, Mild, Southern English Brown Ale, Northern English Brown Ale, Prown Porter, Rolbust Porter, Sweet Stout, Oatmeal Stout, Foriegn Extra Stout, English IPA, Flanders Red Ale, Flanders Brown Ale, Old Ale, and English Barleywine.

 

It's great as a constituent of artificial butter flavoring on popcorn. Less good in most beers, although acceptable (and, in fairness, may add to the taste and mouthfeel) in a number British and Belgian ale styles. I don't personally find it that offensive per se, but if it doesn't belong, I take it as a sign the beer making process was rushed.

 

Little bit is good in English style ales.

 

I wonder if any of these beers have diacetyl in them by mistake, received an appropriate name and then were released? https://www.beeradvocate.com/search/?q=popcorn&qt=beer (I searched on 'popcorn' in the beer's name for this list. A 'buttered' search only turned up two buttered rum beers.

I've read somewhere that the only time diacetyl is acceptable in a beer is when a few brewers choose to have a light amount of it in their ESB Ale. I've tasted diacetyl only once, and it was in a newly-tapped beer (I think it was an amber ale) at a new brewery. I sent it back to the bartender with my complaint and he then took it offline.

 

You always see Samuel Smith's as a favorite British beer. Those almost always have distinct Diacetyl, and my threshold is high.