Marzen recipe feedback

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by makisupapolice14, Aug 24, 2019.

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  1. makisupapolice14

    makisupapolice14 Pundit (799) Jun 5, 2005 New York

    Planning to brew a 5.5 gallon batch of marzen soon. Looking for some feedback in general. Color is a bit lower than I envisioned but I want to avoid an overly sweet finish too. A few online suppliers sell sinamar but not sure if I want to spend the extra money and time waiting for it. If so, I’d probably add 1 oz

    Here goes:
    Og: 1.057
    Ibu: 27
    Srm: 8.5

    4.5# Weyermann Munich type 2 (40.9%)
    3.5# Pilsner (31.8%)
    2.5# Vienna (22.7%)
    0.25# Melanoidin (2.7%) (simulate decoction)
    0.25# Carahell (2.7%)(head retention, replace with caramunich 2 or carared to boost srm?)

    Mash 153f 60 mins, mash pH 5.4 target, acidify as needed

    Hops: tradition at 60 min, hallertau at 15 min

    34-70 yeast

    Any tips on water profile? Was thinking brun water amber balanced or amber malty
     
    #1 makisupapolice14, Aug 24, 2019
  2. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Maven (1,374) May 2, 2006 Utah

    Looks good to me, although I might forgo the melanoidin malt. Cheers!
     
    #2 utahbeerdude, Aug 24, 2019
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  3. makisupapolice14

    makisupapolice14 Pundit (799) Jun 5, 2005 New York

    Thanks. Just curious on forgoing the Melanoidin ? Too much malt character with it? I purposely went low. Used a similar amount in a helles actually and it worked well
     
    #3 makisupapolice14, Aug 24, 2019
  4. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Maven (1,374) May 2, 2006 Utah

    I've just never been a big fan. It's a really powerful malt, so one has to be careful, but if you've had success and like it, then go for it.
     
    #4 utahbeerdude, Aug 24, 2019
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  5. makisupapolice14

    makisupapolice14 Pundit (799) Jun 5, 2005 New York

    Thanks ! I rarely see it in Marzens thought I might try it to experiment a bit
     
    #5 makisupapolice14, Aug 24, 2019
  6. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Please report back what you think. I have only had a handful of commercial beers that had a bit of Melanoidin malt as part of their grain bill and I was not a fan of any of those beers. Maybe they used too much? Or maybe I just don't like the flavor of Melanoidin malt regardless of quantity?

    I have never brewed using Melanoidin malt because of the above.

    I do enjoy the melanoidins provided by Vienna and Munich Malt though.

    Cheers!
     
    #6 JackHorzempa, Aug 24, 2019
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  7. makisupapolice14

    makisupapolice14 Pundit (799) Jun 5, 2005 New York

    To be honest I’m not sure if my high percentages of Munich And Vienna will be enough without the Melanoidin. I’m guessing it would be fine without I’ve just heard and read a bunch about Melanoidin being used to emulate decoction mashing. I’m on the fence whether to use it. I figured ~3% wouldn’t do too much damage if it’s not great since most recommend 5% as a starting point
     
    #7 makisupapolice14, Aug 24, 2019
  8. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I have read that as well but I personally have never used it in my homebrewing since I was never pleased with the flavors of the commercial beers brewed using it. Like I sorta alluded to above, maybe those commercial breweries used too much?
    And it very possible you will enjoy this amount in your beer. Your palate is your palate and you may have enjoyed the commercial beers that I tasted.

    If you choose to proceed with using the Melanoidin malt please report back with your thoughts.

    Cheers!
     
    #8 JackHorzempa, Aug 24, 2019
    makisupapolice14 likes this.
  9. Supergenious

    Supergenious Maven (1,273) May 9, 2011 Michigan

    Recipe should be fine. I don’t know that the Vienna will add much. Personally I’d leave it out, but your beer. I would also consider a different yeast. 34/70 is a good yeast, but fairly bland (the S05 or lager yeast). I only like for hoppy lagers. If you want to stick with dry, go with S189. For water profile, you want a high Cl/SO4 ratio. I would only add CaCl for ph adjustments (no SO4).
     
    #9 Supergenious, Aug 24, 2019
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  10. Uprightfever

    Uprightfever Initiate (122) Apr 23, 2019 California

    Agreed on S-189 over 34/70. I just split a batch of festbier between the two and prefer the S-189. The 34/70 to me has less malt character. S-189 finished 1 point higher but I don't think it is underattenuated.
     
    #10 Uprightfever, Aug 24, 2019
  11. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    It looks like a reasonable recipe for a Marzen. I think any suggestions to change it come down to personal preferences, and ultimately, yours are the ones that matter.

    If you prefer more color without sweetness use 0.1 lb or less of a carafa special malt.
     
    #11 pweis909, Aug 24, 2019
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  12. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Any combo of vienna, munich and pils will net you a decent marzen. I prefer the ayinger strain, but that's me. I use a touch of melanoidin and enjoy the hell out of my beer.
     
    #12 SFACRKnight, Aug 26, 2019
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  13. makisupapolice14

    makisupapolice14 Pundit (799) Jun 5, 2005 New York

     
    #13 makisupapolice14, Oct 4, 2019
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  14. makisupapolice14

    makisupapolice14 Pundit (799) Jun 5, 2005 New York

    Sorry all the sudden my photos from imgur on my iPhone look totally messed up, at least on my display.

    I brewed the beer as initially discussed above and it turned out just to my liking. Definitely the best and most traditional marzen I’ve brewed and I will be re brewing with some tweaks in the future. The Melanoidin isn’t offensive at all and it is super crisp overall.

    Next time i might drop the melanoidin and try s189 for comparison. My homebrew club had an Oktoberfest last week and an informal German beer competition. My marzen ended up winning for best German beer.
     
    #14 makisupapolice14, Oct 4, 2019
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  15. TheBeerery

    TheBeerery Initiate (0) May 2, 2016 Minnesota

    Real German Marzens are usually pretty simple. Like for instance Paulaner Marzen is just 70% light munich, 30% pils, and sinamar to color (reverse that, drop the sinimar you have Paulaner Wiesn). Ayinger is similar with a bit of Caramunich. Real German versions very rarely have any Vienna( except Austrian versions, Austria, Vienna :wink: ). The German macros are very rarely decocted, and munich is usually added as a substitute, not melanoidan. Just FYI

    Congrats on the beer.
     
    #15 TheBeerery, Oct 4, 2019
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  16. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    For maximum cross platform/browser compatibility:
    When you're viewing one of your photos in imgur, just click on "direct link" and it's copied to your clipboard, suitable for pasting into a BA post "Image" dialog box. (Basically, you want to link the image itself, not the imgur display page.)
     
    #16 VikeMan, Oct 4, 2019
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  17. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I can smell the Munich from here.
     
    #17 VikeMan, Oct 4, 2019
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  18. makisupapolice14

    makisupapolice14 Pundit (799) Jun 5, 2005 New York

    Thanks for the tips. I Actually based some
    Of my grain percentages on a post you had in an earlier thread:

    “Recipe guidelines according to Narziss, who is basically the German Jesus.

    Marzen - OG 13.5 Plato
    30-50% Munich malt at 15 EBC (aka Weyermann Munich I)
    30-50% Pilsner malt at 3.5 EBC
    0-30% Vienna malt at 8 EBC
    0-10% caramalt at 25 to 120 EBC (aka Weyermann Carahell to Caramunich 2)
    20-26 IBUs

    Festbier - OG 13.5 Plato
    60-80% Pilsner malt at 3.5 EBC
    0-30% Vienna malt at 8 EBC
    0-30% Munich malt at 15 EBC
    0-5% caramel malt at 25 EBC (Carahell)
    20-24 IBUs


    My marzen (not fully ready yet) this year is 60% dark Munich, 30% pils and 10% melanoidin”

    It looks like you did, in fact, use melanoidin in your version at one time.
    https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/oktoberfest-recipe.531947/

    I am aware it’s traditionally Munich and pils and that’s what I did last year but wanted to try something different this year
     
    #18 makisupapolice14, Oct 4, 2019
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  19. TheBeerery

    TheBeerery Initiate (0) May 2, 2016 Minnesota

    Oh for sure, you can totally use mel malt, but most people use it in place of a decoction and thats not really what its supposed to be used for.
     
    #19 TheBeerery, Oct 5, 2019
  20. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    German Munich malt encompasses a range from light to (~6SRM) to dark (~15 SRM). Which gets used as a substitute? What percent of the grist do German brewers use for this purpose?

    How do German brewers use this malt?
     
    #20 pweis909, Oct 6, 2019
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