German beer market

Discussion in 'Germany' started by einhorn, Jun 8, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    OK, it was getting a little too quiet in here and I saw this pop up on social media. Not sure if it's worthy of it's own thread, but here we go.

    As a 3 day World Cup promotion, starting tomorrow (6/8/18) Edeka in the Rhein-Ruhr area will be selling RATSKRONE pilsner and Radler for just €.14 per 0.5 liter can. After beer tax and VAT that leaves just 6.5 cents, which is basically what the can costs to make. 10 liters (an American 30 pack) of beer for €2.80!

    I looked online at the Edeka site, no news yet but I assume it will be online soon. Until then, here's some snarky German fodder about this.

    https://www.mydealz.de/deals/edeka-...se-014eur028eurliter-lokal-rhein-ruhr-1181414
     
  2. Peekaboolu

    Peekaboolu Initiate (0) May 24, 2016 Germany

    Yeah pretty crazy to see such cheap prizes, I wonder how much of it they have to sell. In July 2016 I saw something similar where a different grocery store (Penny) was selling 18 500mL cans of a Helles beer for 1.99€ :

    [​IMG]

    Maybe there was the World Cup then a well? If so, then I guess it's a good time for all who want to buy cheap beer ^^
     
    AlcahueteJ and einhorn like this.
  3. Dodger75

    Dodger75 Aspirant (287) Feb 26, 2017 England

    Do they deliver to the UK?
     
    Gutes_Bier likes this.
  4. EmperorBatman

    EmperorBatman Zealot (741) Mar 16, 2018 Tennessee

    Truly a Sonderangebot!
     
  5. Resuin

    Resuin Pooh-Bah (2,921) Jun 18, 2012 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Not sure if this is the right place for this, but does anyone know if Ayinger Leichte Brau-Weisse, or any leicht (light) hefeweizens, are available in the USA, either in stores/bars or via online order? Thanks!
     
  6. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    Personally I have never seen any light (leichte) Hefeweizens in the states, but looking at Untappd, the Ayinger has a good amount of US reviews, so I'm assuming it should be available. If I'm in your shoes, ask your local store with a good amount of imports to ask their Ayinger distributor if they can special order it for you...
     
  7. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

  8. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,041) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I'm not sure what they are talking about when they say that beer sales are being "swallowed". Swallowed by what exactly? Don't they just mean that beer sales are "down"?

    Semantics aside, I don't believe that this a particularly new phenomena, or restricted to Germany, is it? I haven't really been paying that much attention to it, but aren't beer sales on the decline quite generally?

    The most depressing part about that article is really more about the strongest brands, which are exclusively discount brands and Fernsehbier, of course.
     
  9. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,041) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    What is much more depressing to me personally is the really hard stand that craft beer is having in Germany. I'm getting more and more convinced that it will never take off here. Of course I can only judge it from my immediate surroundings, but Köln is quite a young, hip city and all the bottle shops here seem to be closing down one by one while the Getränkemarkts are banishing craft beer from their shelves because it is just not selling.

    The reasons for this are many, but one of the root causes in my opinion is that craft beer has not grown organically over time in Germany and was shoved into people's faces all at once instead, with the untappd ticking craze in full swing already as well. Every shop owner I have talked to is complaining about not being able to sell their cases because people only buy one bottle/can, tick it and are done with it. This is exacerbated by the still relatively low number of craft beer enthusiasts in Germany, of course. I'm actually convinced that untappd is the worst thing that ever happened to beer, but that's another story.

    I also think that the motivations for brewers are different. While craft beer was born out of a real passion for beer in the USA, I get the distinct impression that many brewers in Germany are more after the higher margins that craft beer offers than a desire to create a superior product. There are way too many substandard, yet expensive craft beers sitting on the supermarket shelves around here.

    Another big issue is freshness, which people just have absolutely no concept of over here. If you want your beer to be in supermarkets, it needs to have a best-by date of at least 9 months, with 12 months being much more common and pretty much the standard, really. Most of the beer I see on supermarket shelves is 4-8 months old and finding an IPA at less than 3 months old is pretty much impossible.

    The two biggest issues are simply price and the German mindset though, I reckon. German people are really used to paying no more than 2€ for a litre of beer, it's always been like that and you can buy it for half that price if you stick to discount brands. You pretty much can't buy craft beer for less than 6€ a litre here, with the average price being more around 8€, so that's a huge barrier for most people. That's supermarkets though, mind you. If you wanna buy the really good stuff from bottle shops, where you can actually find fresh stuff from the best breweries, it's more like 11€ per litre.

    Then there's the German mindset. Without wanting to generalize too much, I think the average German is very set in their ways and not that interested in trying new things. We even have a saying here: Was der Bauer nicht kennt, das frisst er nicht (the peasant won't eat what he doesn't know). Now imagine finally ponying up that ridiculous price for one of those weird craft beers you've been hearing so much about and then it tastes like shit because it's by a crappy brewery and is 6 months old. Yeah, that's probably the first and the last craft beer you ever bought.

    Well, this has gotten rather long, but I'm honestly frustrated. Two of my favorite bottle shops have already shut down and the one Getränkemarkt that was always a mekka for craft beer is getting less and less interested in offering it because he's sick of those untappd tickers and can't sell his cases. Finding interesting beers is getting harder and harder and when you do they are expensive as fuck most of the time. I've gotten used to paying 5-6€ for a can of beer, but I'm not paying 7-9€ or even more for a fucking can of IPA. Go fuck yourself.
     
  10. NeroFiddled

    NeroFiddled Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,276) Jul 8, 2002 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. Even in Berlin, and even amongst the younger crowd, craft beer hasn’t really taken off - it’s more of a novelty. And I’ve said this before, it doesn’t appear to me that German brewers really know how to handle these beers. Every craft IPA that I’ve tasted has been just a little bit off in the hops. That may be because the hops are a bit older, probably not, or maybe it’s that they’re hopping in more traditional ways - I’d like to hear how German brewers feel about 0 IBU, no kettle hop IPAs!

    What I really wanted to note though, is that although Germany remains very traditional, they’ve produced some new and fantastic hop varieties recently. That confuses me.
     
    boddhitree likes this.
  11. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,041) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    There are plenty of great IPAs being produced in Germany, but you won't find those in supermarkets because those breweries actually know what they are doing and refuse to set their best by dates for more than 3-5 months. Also, those beers are even more expensive than the supermarket craft beers, but at least they are worth it.

    Have you tried anything fresh from FrauGruber, Blech.Brut, Fürst Wiacek or Brewheart for example? I just had a single-hop Nelson Sauvin DIPA from FrauGruber that was amazing.

    I think the main reason why so much of the supermarket stuff is substandard is simply because of what I mentioned earlier: margins. They are produced cheaply to raise those margins, probably using low-quality hops at low volumes.
     
    AlcahueteJ and boddhitree like this.
  12. jonb5

    jonb5 Pooh-Bah (1,745) May 11, 2010 England
    Pooh-Bah

    Are people just drinking less beer in general? I was in REWE yesterday and there was a whole shopping trolley full of Becks that was reduced as it had reached its expiry date.

    When it comes to craft beer in Germany, I’ve always felt there’s too much beer sat on shelves which is priced higher than people are prepared to pay.

    I hope we’re not looking back in a few years time remembering those few years when there was actually a choice.
     
    Snowcrash000 likes this.
  13. drmeto

    drmeto Pooh-Bah (2,402) Jan 29, 2015 Germany
    Pooh-Bah


    I had the Blech. Brut 23/04 recently, which was fantastic.

    As far as sales go, i think craft beer is gonna be solely move to online shops dedicated to craft drinkers.

    Too many craft beer drinkers are unreliable consumers.
    Buying craft beer by the sixpack will never become a thing in Germany.
    Most of them rarely repeatedly buy a certain brand, even if they like it.

    Discounters & bottle shops move beer by the crate or sixpack, not by the single bottle.
     
    boddhitree likes this.
  14. EmperorBatman

    EmperorBatman Zealot (741) Mar 16, 2018 Tennessee

    I think craft beer can generally stand to be somewhat cheaper for the costumer - SN and Sam Adams have been very good in that regard providing high-quality beer that is also relatively easy on the wallet.

    A question for our German members: Is there a sense of regional loyalty among beer consumers (so, for example, if you’re from Württemberg you drink Bitburger, or Berliner Kindl if you’re a Berliner), as is the case in Austria?
     
  15. KS_Augsburg

    KS_Augsburg Zealot (614) Jul 29, 2018 Illinois
    Trader

    There is definitely regional loyalty - big time and rightfully so. Something that is somewhat similar to freshness in my view: beer does not travel well. Usually you have good chance of success when drinking beer from the region you are currently in. Especially in southern Germany (I am not so familiar with the central or eastern area), there are so many excellent local and regional breweries, it would be foolish to drink something from far far away if you get the great local stuff as fresh as it gets. One of my favorites times in Germany are Oktoberfest, Cannstatter Wasen, Starkbierzeit, etc. when you get specifically brewed seasonal beers locally and super fresh.
    BTW: Württemberger do not drink Bitburger!!!
     
  16. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    Lots of moving pieces on craft beer in Germany, many different reasons which we have discussed at length here. Watching it progress (online) in Germany over the last few years, I was waiting for the one big brewery to make a GREAT pale ale - like SNPA. A sort of gateway brew. The Kellerbier wave is (I think) still in full swing, but it's just an unfiltered lager - nothing really groundbreaking for German beer drinkers.

    Otherwise, due to the limited distribution in established distribution channels, it will be hard for the small guy to become "popular". This especially true in the on-premise sales where you need money in the pay-to-play German beer market.
     
    boddhitree likes this.
  17. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    There is a fair bit of discussion about the ‘viability’ of the craft beer market segment in Germany in this thread:

    https://www.beeradvocate.com/commun...a-beer-me-anything.628445/page-7#post-6720553

    For example in a reply to one of my posts Greg Koch posted:

    “Americans were unwilling to pay the price of craft beer when we started. It was a BIG deal. But SOME were. And we, and other craft brewers, were able to build our businesses with the customers that saw the value equation. Many Germans also see this value equation. But not enough to sustain our bold move. Hindsight.

    Unfortunately, retailers will NOT take a beer with less than 6 or 9 months STILL left on the code dating. If an American sees a beer with 60 days left, they (generally) think “Great! That’s a fresh beer!” If a European sees a beer with 60 days left, they think “No way, that’s a beer that’s 10 months old!” Sure, we can put the “Packaged On” date, and we did, but retailers WILL NOT STOCK a beer that does not fit within their parameters. Perception is the game, not reality. It sucks, and makes for a system that provides less consumer knowledge.”

    So, it would appear that the number of German beer consumers who are willing to pay the necessary price for craft beer are too small at this moment in time.

    Also, when it comes to hoppy beers (e.g., IPAs) there is an issue about freshness/best by dates. German beer retailers (e.g., supermarkets) insist that the beers have long best by dates (e.g., 12 months) but needless to say this is not compatible for beers like IPAs which are best consumed in a much shorter period of time.

    If any of you have questions for Greg Koch concerning the Stone – Berlin venture (which is now owned by BrewDog) I would encourage you to participate on his thread.

    Cheers!
     
  18. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,041) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    What is the "necessary" price though? That is the big question that Greg remained suspiciously silent on as well. Why is Stone IPA that is actually being brewed in Germany almost twice as expensive as it is in the USA?

    Why are shitty breweries like Craftwerk or Inselbrauerei that are obviously not using high quality ingredients charging 8€/l for their crappy beer? If these breweries spent less money on excessive marketing and buying up shelf space in supermarkets and more on quality hops then maybe they'd be able to offer better value for money and people would actually buy it.

    I'm perfectly happy spending 11€/l on quality beer from small microbreweries like FrauGruber or Blech.Brut, for example, but I'm sure as hell not paying even 8€/l on the kind of crap that Craftwerk or Inselbrauerei are pumping out. Unfortunately it's this crap that is most visible in the German craft beer market right now and it gives all of craft beer a bad name.

    EDIT: Look at Maisel & Friends, the only brewery in Germany offering their craft product in sixpacks for 3€/l and it's not even half bad. Are you telling me that Craftwerk (Bitburger) couldn't match that price? No, they are simply trying to charge "what the market will bear" and severly misjudged that price.

    Maybe if companies were charging what's fair instead of what the market will bear in the first place we'd all be better off.
     
    #18 Snowcrash000, Dec 5, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  19. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I am assuming that this question being posed to me is rhetorical since as you are well aware I am not privy to the financials of craft breweries.
    Perhaps this specific question is something that you could post in Greg's thread. He should know the answer to that specific question.

    Cheers!
     
  20. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,041) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I did and he ignored it.
     
    AlcahueteJ likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.