Other Half (2019)

hope sd lasts. I saw a guy with a beard loading 4 cases into a car with NJ plates yesterday. License plate said FRANKFUX69

 

I'm going to be real mad if I can't get any of the '18 BA because they sent a bunch to NC and ROC. Pitchfork on standby

LMAO, this made me almost spit my water out at my desk

 

Forgot to add this to my last post, but I didn't try this last night b/c my friend got me a 4 pack and I wanted to try Bloomfield Daydream, so I can't report but I know @Feaor and some others said its seems green. That being said Bloomfield DD was a bit too sweet for me, I also didnt realize it was 10% until I looked back up at the board after I drank half of it.

 

2019 Velvet Magnum has coconut milk, heavy cream, and lactose in it.....

 

I honestly can't wait for the FDA to step into beer.

 

Yeah my initial reaction when I saw that was what in the actual fuck. I'm equating this to being super drunk at a bar and then ordering a shot on top of your beer. I will see that Modern Times collab with coconut milk was really good, but it didnt have lactose I believe. Why do we need Tose Coconut Milk AND Heavy Cream?! I do def want to get my hands on a bottle of the BA 2018, one of the better stouts OH has made IMO.

 

Split a bottle of the Rothaus Pils Tannen Zäpfle last night at St. Gambrinus, and I'm ashamed to admit how surprised I was at the incredible flavor...it was just great fucking beer.

So as much as I love OH's aggressive hop flavors, and am at least amused by the seriously wacky shit they're throwing in stouts, thank god there's still breweries out there keeping the crystallized concept of the simplest most perfect beer ever made as a counterpoint.

 

What’s the calories per ounce on this bad boy.

 

If you have to ask, probably too many?

 

Rothaus is one of the best pilsners I’ve ever had.

 

By Shaun Hill's beard, SD lasted until Thursday and I am happy.

 

does that magnum have an expiration date on it? Jeez.

 

Only, perhaps, in the annals of what you've actually sampled as a consumer relative to other overachievers. But let's not be overly coy. As a poster in the online beer universe, you're a veritable demigod—a supernatural being of unrivaled stamina.

Still, given how ubiquitous top-shelf brewing has become in this region (or much of the rest of the country for that matter), I don't believe that trying every last thing remains the point. If it ever was. Ticking isn't the path to stature, and much less wisdom.

Swing a dead cat in this city, and you'll find beer as great as you could anywhere else at any other time in history. This isn't hyperbole. We're preposterously blessed, and the only things that matter are identifying our own personal tastes and supporting those breweries worthy of our support. The rest is noise.

 

Normally I'm avoiding controversy but I'm deeply committed to the art of subversion too. On this matter I sincerely believe though, that we DO need to have the tough conversation about the shit going into beer. Do any of us have no lines, no concept self defeating, disqualifying by definition?

For me the 0 IBU beers from a few years ago danced on the line, just really pointless.

 

0 IBUs is a misnomer though, there is still perceived bitterness in these beers because the calculations assume that there is no isomerization of alpha acids below 175°F which isn't completely true. As well as there is no contribution to perceived bitterness from dry hopping, which also isn't true. I've had plenty of good "0" IBU IPAs, even some that I would've thought were on the higher end of bitterness for the style of hazy IPA.

 

@Feaor, that's a very wonky answer, which I respect. I'll also change some language if it helps clarify my query to this crowd: at what point do you think something isn't beer, or doesn't "deserve" to be called beer? And I want to stress I think those are two different perspectives.

Someone could say anything with water, yeast, malt, and hops is beer. But it doesn't deserve to be called beer if you add more than "X" or things from column "Y", you could also say. I like stouts with candy bars and donuts, but instinctually I can't shake the feeling that such a permissive attitude overlooks the value of so many related (wine) or unrelated (architecture) fields where these debates have helped clarify expectations.

And in the end, that's what the debate is about- what can you reasonably expect from someone who says they're giving you something? It's like sandwiches...can it be called a sandwich if the top and bottom are battered and fried meat, like KFC radically proposed? Italians, New Yorkers, and Chicagoans are locked in a deathmatch over the definition of pizza. The value of those discussions goes beyond discovering one's own personal preference.

Personally I'd love some kind of "sweetness" index value that could be applied to all beers, objectively. My biggest gripe is when I get a stout or IPA or any style really, that is too damned sweet. I love soda- I have regular root beer tastings with my son. I've never wanted to combine that love of beer (hops, bitter, yeast) with root beer into a single beverage. Blech.

 

I think the overly fruited sours like jreams and the stuff from 450 push the envelope more than pastry stouts or adjunct heavy IPAs.

At least in the latter two you can tell that the base tastes like 'beer' and then all this other stuff was added.

The fruited stuff all tastes like alcoholic smoothies imo.

 

Damn that Rothaus really got you thinking @SeanEDPBK !

Man this is a tough one to nail down. I’m very much in two minds about it all.

On the one hand I’m a big fan of well made examples of classic styles. And I hope they continue to stick around and get the respect they deserve.

On the other hand - I’ll avoid using the word “innovate” - beers can and should continue to evolve. We can’t just get stuck in one moment in time. And it’s funny - I see guys in the main forum who 7-8 years ago were clamoring for the “innovation” of WCIPA, who have now turned reactionary and claim NEIPA doesn’t taste like beer. I find that absolutely hilarious.

The very idea of whether something does or does not “taste like beer” is problematic. What does beer taste like? The traditionalist Brit in me would think that beer tastes like a 3.8% cask conditioned bitter. But go back 70 years ago and I imagine a lot of Brits (I’m totally speculating here) were complaining about the watered down pish they were being served mostly for legislative / rationing reasons.

I’d also say a lot depends on the skill/intent of the brewer themselves. Two different places could both make a 12% BA imperial stout with coffee, vanilla and cacao. One could be a well-balanced, well-crafted, beautiful beer that’s taken considerable time, effort and space. The other could be a ‘nilla sugar bomb that’s been pointed in the direction of a crappy spirit barrel for all of 6 weeks. First one “beer”. Second one “barely beer”.

Short answer is it depends.

That said some things which are just automatically pushing something towards “not beer” territory:

Base additions (coffee, vanilla, a particular fruit etc) - fine. Premade food (I’m aware I have purchased some haha) such as donuts, candy bars, breakfast cereal - not fine.

Even when it’s just base additions - keep it to three and avoid using multiple types of the same thing. I think in the Kane thread (who obviously deserve more respect than OH stout-wise generally speaking) I saw a new stout with 4 types of vanilla and multiple types of cacao. That’s like a total overkill/waste.

Sorry again for touting Lord Dan and Saint Shaun. But Suarez/HF are examples of places that strike the right balance. Among their joint lineups you’ll find beers with “stuff” added, hazy IPAs, BA stouts, traditional-ish styles that have been tweaked to attempt something new - but everything they make stays firmly in the “beer” camp.

The above is not to knock OH. I think they are a great brewery. And when they stay inside some of the stuff I’ve outlined (Space, ACE, Short Dark [for the purpose of my argument peanut butter is a base addition haha] etc) they kill it.

Happy Friday

 

"I like beer, it makes me a jolly good fellow."

So if I like it, it is beer, if not then no.

 

100% on board with basically everything @rozzom said in his response to this.

We have already crossed the line of beer that isn't beer IMO. The fact that alot of the fruited stuff OH puts out is labelled a berliner is just adding to the misconception by people who don't really know beer. Add to that the fact we have most of these as "imperial" which isn't even a thing in the traditional sense we are way off. Now as said, I am all for innovation/evolution of beer, but when you completely disregard what a style is but still call it that, it gets annoying. Honor System is a great example of US innovation on a berliner, lower ABV, fruited additions but still lends itself to a traditional berliner profile.

Sure all of these things are made with hops malt yeast and water but it gets a little out of hand when it gets pushed to the extreme. @rozzom talked on how WCIPAers of the past were clamouring for the next version of what they would be drinking but now are back tracking. The NEIPA is polarizing and at its extreme totes the line closely. When you add too much lactose or additions to make it sweet you are losing what gave the style of sense of development as a new version of IPA. I don't need a smack me in the face bitterness but I need something to remind me I am drinking a beer and not sugary citrus juice with a slight carb.

I think of the current "scene" as something of this. You have a lot of people who have been in and around it for a while, who enjoy the changing of styles a bit and trying these new things but know what they like (and small sect who hate what beer has become). Then you have a lot of people, likely mostly younger (even though I am pretty young but I guess hopped on the i don't want shit macro lager train right out of the gate) who recently got into craft beer or non macro beer and don't have the tastes for certain styles. So brewers push the styles to be more accessible to everyone who they can get money from, b/c hey its a business after all right? That lends itself to sweeter styles, less bitter beer, more adjuncted things that have nice marketing around them and play well in the age of social media. As to note our my nerdness too hard, I almost equate it to what Nintendo has kind of done in terms of the video game industry. When the Wii came out and subsequently now the Switch, Nintendo smartly marketed it towards families who would not normally buy a video game system but would buy something the whole family can play at parties. Now that isolated a ton of "gamers" and traditional video type people, but they made a ton of money on those systems and most traditional people found some things in there to be happy about as well and enjoy.

And thus we have crossed my two nerd-doms into one... where is my OH/Nintendo NYC collab now?

That being said, regardless of what I like/prefer in a beer, if a place is making at least something I really like I am going to seek it out and drink it. I might not touch some of the other things they do that do not interest me or appeal to me, but that is a beautiful problem to have IMO. Thinking back 8 or 9 years ago the options were way slimmer and the quality not nearly as good. We have come so far, even if some of that has pushed beer "too far"