Seems like it's been a while since there's been a Cascade thread here! What are some recent releases from them that you've had and enjoyed? I thought One Way Or Another was very tasty. Last night, I tried Primordial Noir, and while I liked the flavors (though secretly I was hoping for the "spices" to be more prominent than they were), it was flat as a pancake (nearly zero carb), which is something I've never before experienced with a Cascade beer. It didn't say anything on the bottle about expecting this or that this was as-intended, though when I went to read up on it afterward, it seems as though most places serving it on draft are doing so with nitro. Maybe this is why? -- Nathan
I confess I haven't been to Cascade in a while, and I haven't been interested either, particularly because of their price point. However, I wish them the best , especially having helped really popularize the American Wild Ale style.
I can't remember the last time I had a Cascade beer. When I'm in Portland the taproom is never on my list of places to hit. They raised their prices way too high and there are better options at lower prices.
This is pretty much me as well. I like their beers, but not so much that I'm willing to pay their prices. I can't remember the last time I stopped by the barrel room/taproom.
ill grab a bottle every once in a while. i like sour beers during the holidays when lots of savory food is being consumed. their apricot or cranberry sours are always delicious. but yes, the price point keeps me away from the taproom
My own experience is mostly with bottles in distrib. I get to visit Portland MAYBE once a year if I'm lucky. And actually, it's been a couple of years...so I'm having some trouble remembering what their taproom price points are like. I do remember it being an exquisite treat the last time I was there, and the visit to their taproom being one of the highlights of my trip... So, as far as bottles go, sure, they're on the higher side, but (IMO) not outrageously so. Or am I crazy? 750ml releases are usually around the $25-30 area depending on bottle shop. I wasn't stoked to see them move more releases over to 500ml, but the smaller bottles are less expensive... I'll admit to being a sour n00b comparatively, but when it comes to this category/style, which regional brewery that focuses on this style has an equal or higher batting average, but charges less MSRP for their wares? Genuinely curious...given the reaction here, I must be missing something. de Garde? I wouldn't know since I never see their stuff in distribution (at least in WA or ID)...I've only gotten to try a couple thanks to the generosity of some people @ bottle shares. pFriem isn't a "sour house", yet I find to be consistently solid at almost every style they attempt, so I respect them for that, but they're not necessarily "world class" (jack of all trades, master of none?), and yet they charge > $10 retail for 375ml of all their fruited lambics. That's roughly on par with Cascade pricing...and I happily pay it for some of their stuff (e.g., Abrikoos). So...what closely-guarded Northwest-produced world-class wild ale secrets am I not privy to?
IMO , the pFriem sours are better, because they include more funk than Cascade, along with a more complex sour palate. There's oa blendf citric and occasionally, acetic acid, and even the lactic acid sourness, that Cascade has loads of,m to be more complex with a blend of yogurt like and fermented sausage like lactic funk. For that reason, I prefer them over Cascade. Yes, their prices are also $12/12oz or thereabouts, so they are a special purchase for me, especially since at that price, I can find 3 Fonteinen and Tilquin oide gueuze. Upright is, arguably, the best brewer of barrel aged wilds in Oregon. Super drinkable, not particularly sour, instead focusing on flavor depth and harmony. Beers like Oregon Native and Fantasia are incredible , and if you can find Special Herbs, you are in for a treat. They're priced $8/12oz . If you are comfortable with the Cascade pricing, do check out Alesong. They make some pretty spectacular beers, though in the $16-20/500ml range. As you point out, de Garde are also excellent, and while their beers are a lot more sour than the Brewers I've listed, they manage to be quite drinkable, and also have that lovely old, musty, mushroom , damp earth funk. They're well priced too. So there. We've hijacked your thread
This is kind of the thing. Cascade is a great place to visit if you're from out of town. They have a massive number of unique sours on, many of which never make it to bottle. The price point is essentially $1/oz or higher. A flight of 6 2oz pours is going to run you $15-21. If I'm from out of town, I'd absolutely pay that for a cool place like Cascade. But when you live in the area, that's not the kind of place you're going to stop in very regularly. I do still visit probably once a year because I like their beers. Other Oregon-based purveyors of funk would include Alesong, Ale Apothecary, Upright, Wolves and People, and Block 15. Yachats too but they don't distribute (to my knowledge). In Seattle I know there's Holy Mountain and Urban Family, maybe more. Lots of larger breweries are doing great things as well. You mentioned pFriem, and Deschutes does very nice things with sours as well.
8 years ago when i moved to the PNW, they were really the only sour producer and the clear go-to. crazy how the landscape has changed! i honestly haven't had one of their beers in years, although i'd never turn down a pour of manhattan if i see it on draft somewhere.
Garden Path, Standard Brewing, Structures, E9, Fremont's Black Heron Project and if you're lucky enough to have access, Floodland.
I've enjoyed the funky & sour beers I've had from Little Beast. (Full disclosure: I'm not much of a sour beer fan, and I tend to prefer funk to outright sourness.) For my money, @DefenCorps nailed it when he called Upright "arguably, the best brewer of barrel aged wilds in Oregon."
I picked up Cascade's 20th Anniversary bottle of Bourbonic Plague last year ($30/750ml). Drank it the other day - was my first Cascade in a few years after drinking A LOT of de Garde, pFriem, Alesong, Upright - and the sheer acidity blew me away. It might have been the specific bottle, but I recall most Cascade's being fairly acidic. They were my first sour/wild I tried way back when and I liked them then, but now I see them as a little one-note as @DefenCorps said - the others have a lot of depth to support the acidity (and some of them have minimal acidity). I love Deschutes as a whole, but I feel the same way about Dissident so it's just not one I buy anymore. For me I will always appreciated Cascade for being my gateway into wild ales, but I feel that they also haven't kept up with the way the category has evolved over the past decade. As far as their pricing in general, I don't think it's out of line. I joined Tavour and some of the prices of "wild" bottles are flat-out obscene. I have no idea if they are good or not since they are otherwise unavailable in Oregon, but for the prices some of these places charge I'm not willing to try (sure, Tavour adds some on top, but even taking that into account the prices are high). Cascade is expensive...for the northwest. If you compare them to the category as a whole the prices are pretty normal. Again, we sometimes forget how good we have it here, where someone like de Garde rarely charges more than $18 for anything (and also a 750ml). And if they do, it's for a good reason like using an exorbitantly expensive adjunct like truffles.
Thanks all; truly much appreciated. I will check out Upright. I have also been meaning to check out E9 for some time but haven't gotten around to it...great reminder. I've had a Garden Path brew and it was enjoyable. I also quite forgot about Propolis, which I haven't seen in a while. Deschutes really doesn't brew a lot of sours, but the ones I've had I have liked. I guess I should have clarified that part of the attraction of Cascade is relatively easy access. If it isn't available in a bottle shop or grocer in east WA / north ID, that doesn't do me a whole lot of good...so I do find it kind of amusing that people berate Cascade for pricing, but when I ask about recommendations for better wild ales at better price points, people trot out Ale Apothecary and Floodland, as if those are readily sitting on shelves and the second-hand trade values aren't nuts.
Heh, Ale Apothecary wins the award for the most expensive beer in Oregon. A better comparison would be Alesong or de Garde which you can usually get for ~$15-20 for a 500-750 bottle, or comparing pubs at Upright a 12oz pour of one of their sours is $5-6.
I can't speak for others, but I guess I thought we were talking about Cascade's draft prices at the barrelroom/taproom. IMHO, those prices are quite high. Bottle prices are on the high side as well, but as you pointed out, not outlandish. At least not by today's standards. Arguably, you can find comparable quality at a better price with Upright and de Garde, but then again, there are plenty of breweries that are making BA sours that are comparably priced or even a bit more expensive than Cascade. Personally, I'm not all that big a sour fan anyway, but when I do on occasion order something sour, it's usually from pFriem, Upright or Deschutes (as I have enjoyed some of the Dissident offerings). All of those breweries offer good quality sours that are somewhat cheaper than most Cascade beers (at least in this market), and I tend to enjoy them more than the beers from Cascade (as the acidity in their sours really gets to me after a while).
yeah, i think the response you are getting from many of us PDX residents is thtat its more of a function of gross availability of sours in portland. you can pretty much roll into any respectable taproom/beer bar and some kind of sour will be available at a good price point. to this point, i rolled into Johns Market yesterday and grabbed a 12oz pour of pFriem BA Saison for $6. Loyal Legion has a Coldfire stonefruit sour on right now for $6/16oz. Are these as good as the best offering from Cascade? maybe not, depending on what you are looking for, but its WAY more affordable if youre trying to scratch that sour itch. But this isnt just a Cascade/sour issue in Portland. I see a lot of the more expensive beers that used to fly off shelves just sitting around now days
You should also check out Iron Goat in Spokane. They have a series of mixed fermentation beers called Goat Works that are outstanding. I attended an event about a month ago that featured tastings of all 5 beers so far from that series and swiped a cheat sheet of all of their stats that I'll enter on the BA database when I get a moment. Downside is they're only bottled in 750mL bottles that you have to buy at the brewery.
