Adjunct Misinformation

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by deleted_user_1007501, Dec 2, 2019.

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  1. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Grand Pooh-Bah (3,966) Mar 12, 2013 California
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    @Roguer, I generally agree with your take in broad strokes. However, my frustration with the contemporary use of adjunct by the "craft" segment is that the word had/has become industry jargon for a particular thing. The readoption of adjunct to mean "anything that isn't barley malt, hops, yeast, or water" doesn't foster any clearer understanding, just the opposite. Is an adjunct stout brewed with oats and corn or with yuzu and candy corn? The industry had taken a very broad English word and given it a very specific meaning and now (it would certainly seem largely in an attempt to sound well informed) it has been stripped of that specific meaning and become so broad as to hardly convey any information.
    I've come firmly into the opinion that the most useful way for brewers and beer consumers to use the word is to specify the type (malt, flavoring, etc...) of adjunct being applied.
    Now, as to your use of vice instead of versus...I'm gonna need to see some links :wink:
     
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  2. islay

    islay Savant (1,211) Jan 6, 2008 Minnesota

    I think this post pretty much nails it.

    I've stayed out of this thread because I've grown bored of the topic, but I'll let it suffice to say that numerous, knowledgeable, professional brewers correctly and intentionally use the term "adjunct" to refer to flavoring additives while well aware of this semantic debate. This is not a matter of ignorance; it's a matter of informed disagreement, and I do believe the modernists have the better argument in this case. They've heard the counterarguments and rejected them.

    I'll also reiterate that this debate is outsized here on BeerAdvocate because of this site's years-old choice to classify an "American Adjunct Lager" style, which tends to emphasize the limited and outdated definition (although of course the broader, modern, and better-rooted-in-the-English-language definition certainly encompasses that usage).

    I'll continue for the time being to use "flavoring adjuncts" and "malt adjuncts" (the term before it was lazily shortened in industry jargon when flavoring adjuncts were uncommon in the brewing habits of English-speaking countries, something that is no longer the case*) as a slight nod to the recalcitrant.

    * To be clear, it is both no longer the case that most adjuncts are malt adjuncts (and not flavoring adjuncts) and no longer the case that "adjuncts" refers only to "malt adjuncts" in industry jargon.
     
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  3. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader


    Outside of the (admittedly ubiquitous) AAL-style, I don't predict that this would cause confusion, but I do see your point.

    I'm personally a proponent of distinguishing styles with non-standard additives from other styles. Rating a coffee stout against a standard stout, for example, is counter-intuitive to me. (Then again, the same goes for barrel aging.) Whether the label is "flavored" or "adjunct" isn't germane to me; I'll go with whatever the industry (or individual brewer) chooses.

    Should brewers move toward a more general use of the term, I don't necessarily see that this would engender confusion. To wit: for the many, many brewers slapping "adjunct" as a descriptor for their flavored stouts, is there general confusion among the craft beer consumer? Are some people disappointed that a beer with cinnamon, coffee, chocolate, and vanilla labeled as an "adjunct stout" didn't also supplement the malt bill with rice or corn?

    For AALs, I agree, this becomes more of a sticking point, but I don't see this as a concern applied broadly.
     
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  4. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
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    This one paragraph states far more succinctly my point than I could ever hope to manage. This is exactly what I was trying to say, but it takes me a page to say it. :grinning:
     
  5. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Boy, this has really turned into a "Tastes Great - Less Filling" debate.:rolling_eyes:

    As long as the Brewing Industry continues to define adjuncts as ingredients that provides fermentable sugars to the wort (i.e., corn, rice, sugars, etc,) that is the appropriate usage of the term as far as I am concerned. The fact that some brewers, who perhaps were not formally trained (e.g., attended Brewing School like UC Davis), misuse the term does not have any justification for me.

    Cheers!
     
  6. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Grand Pooh-Bah (3,966) Mar 12, 2013 California
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    I agree that its often clear what kind of adjunct is being talked about but certainly not always.
    Under the broad usage a schwarzbier brewed with chocolate and orange zest is an adjunct lager. And imagine the disappointment in a pastry bois heart when he buys an adjunct stout that is donut and candy bar free (although those might have fermentable sugars?) but does contain quinoa and heritage corn (its still a craft beer after all).
     
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  7. officerbill

    officerbill Pooh-Bah (2,228) Feb 9, 2019 New York
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    Not really, but I'm am disappointed that a beer with cinnamon, coffee, chocolate, and vanilla isn't just labeled as a "flavored stout" .

    For me it's about which word provides the most information about a beer I'm considering.
    I see the word adjunct (in the traditional sense) has a particular meaning and I know that other grains were added to assist with fermentation. In the growing usage it has no meaning other than “something was added to the beer” and provides little usable information.

    IMO this argument is the result of brewer's putting out flavored beers, but not wanting to call them “flavored“ due to the possible negative connotations (see Bud calling out corn syrup) so they started calling their flavorings “adjuncts” since their customers were probably vaguely aware that was an actual brewing term.
    “I'm not going to buy that stout, it's chocolate flavored” vs “I'm going to buy that stout with the chocolate adjunct”.

    It is probably a losing battle, since the “cool kids”, both brewers and drinkers, are increasingly using the term to mean anything outside of the four standard ingredients, but maybe the industry can settle on “malt adjuncts” and “flavoring adjuncts”. That way we can keep the distinction and brewers don't have to call it a birthday cake flavored stout.
     
    #167 officerbill, Jan 2, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2020
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  8. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader


    I'm 100% in support of separating "malt" and "flavoring" adjuncts.

    I'm also in favor of labeling beers with additives as "flavored 'x'" (stout, lager, whatever the case may be), but the industry seems to be embracing adjunct more frequently than flavored (although examples can be found of the latter, as well).

    There is a definite advantage over "adjunct" in terms of reviewing, which might not seem obvious at first glance. Try describing the added flavors in, say, a flavored stout. Adjunct is, without objection, the most precise and efficient term. Flavorings sounds coarse; additives, too vague (even if it essentially means the same thing).

    But if the industry could get in line behind a consistent and effective standard, I'm sure we could adjust our terminology in ratings without too much consternation. :grinning:
     
    #168 Roguer, Jan 2, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2020
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  9. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I assume you meant to type "coarse" here but why do you think that the term of flavorings is coarse? FWIW flavorings does not sound coarse to me and in this instance I think it conveys the message in a clearer manner.
    From my perspective the "industry" does have a consistent meaning for the term of adjunct. It is some 'rogue' brewers that work at craft breweries who sometimes misuse the word.

    Cheers!
     
  10. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    On the former point: personal preference. It simply does, to me - nor do I think that adjuncts necessarily implies a lack of specification (as I provided examples in the previous post).
    (On the pre-point, yes: coarse. I will correct my post. :slight_smile: )

    On the latter point: it's hardly "rogue" brewers, certainly at this point. I strongly assert that I could visit my "local" (in Jax) and find one to two dozen breweries with multi-state distribution using the term. Likely more, but I am going off memory, without having purposely conducted this experiment.

    Finally, I must find it a sticking point that some (yourself included, obviously) consider it a "misuse" of a term, when those rogues (love that term, naturally) are using its actual definition - which, itself, predates the use of that same term in brewing by centuries (no, really). It may be a use outside of what has become commonly accepted within the industry, due in no small part to the creation and subsequent popularity of adjunct lagers in the New World, but misuse? I simply can't get behind that sentiment.

    A hypothetical, if you will: suppose "milk sugar," as added to beer, became commonly accepted within the industry as a shorthand: "sugar." The suggestion that all brewers must, at risk of "misusing" the term "sugar," now refer to all other sugars (Belgian candi among them) as flavorings or additives is slightly offensive to my sensibilities. An outrageous parallel? Perhaps - except that is precisely what has happened when one refers to malt adjuncts as simply "adjuncts," and demand that the entire world cease usage of the term under any previous conditions.

    It is not heresy, and I will not recant! :grinning:

    Post-script: I would hardly agree that the industry fully agrees on what does, and does not, constitute an adjunct. It is easy to agree on what does, in many cases (corn, corn syrup, rice), but many ingredients seem to often be disregarded as adjuncts (wheat, rye, candi sugar, honey). I stand by my much, much earlier assertion that much (but not all, and perhaps subconsciously) of the craft beer community push-back on the use of adjunct stems from a negative association of that term with BMC AALs, and not from any actual care for or understanding of the usage.
     
  11. Junior

    Junior Pooh-Bah (1,883) May 23, 2015 Michigan
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    Yes, per the dictionary, adjunct is defined as something joined or added to a thing but not essentially part of it. That definition does not work with beer. Once the 'something' is added to beer is part of the beer. It cannot be separated. Whether it be for fermentation or solely for flavoring.

    The brewing definition of adjunct works much better. The definition of brewing adjunct is pretty straight forward.
     
  12. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    That's not accurate. It's not about being part of the final product once your particular Habenero-Mango Black India Pale Wheat Ale is finsihed; it's about being necessary to the production of beer (the product category). Supplementary vice essential. Not a very contentious distinction, really.

    Your contention also applies to malt adjuncts. They aren't essential. They are supplemental. Yet, you literally cannot brew Budweiser without rice. Perhaps adjunct was the wrong term all along, if your distinction is to be followed (malt additive? malt substitute?).

    (Also, no: anything beyond malt, water, yeast, and hops (traditionally) is non-essential in most beers (caveat emptor). Wheat in a wheat beer? Essential. Wheat in a Pilsner? Non-essential. Coffee in a stout? Non-essential. Any argument to the contrary would be semantic in nature, at best, and unproductive.)

    I agree in terms of brewing, adjunct as it refers to malt adjuncts is more precise (straight forward, as you say) - except for the cases where the industry itself doesn't seem to agree on what exactly constitutes an adjunct (examples provided in a previous post), so ... so much for that, but I do agree with you, to a point. It doesn't mean the other usage is wrong, or even necessarily inefficient.

    I'm a big proponent of @officerbill 's (and others') recommendation of simply specifying malt adjuncts as, well, malt adjuncts - vice adjuncts, writ large. The term has already been misappropriated to fit a specific usage within the industry. Adjuncts would simply mean that something has been added to the beer, beyond the four basic ingredients. Malt adjuncts would pertain specifically to ingredients used to supplement the mash (for whatever reason). Flavoring adjuncts would mean additives such as coffee or chocolate, not added to supplement the mash, but added to impart flavor tones that the malt, hops, yeast, and water could not on their own (or could not, under the specific brewing process).
     
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  13. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    It appears that you do not have a full understanding of what the word "adjunct" means in the brewing industry. Sugars that are fermentable (e.g, Candi sugar, dextrose, sucrose, etc.) are indeed adjuncts.

    Permit me to encourage you to read:

    https://beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/446dbAKnTv/

    Cheers!
     
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  14. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Needless to say I am unfamiliar with the breweries in your area but it would not surprise me that there are other craft brewers/breweries in America beyond those "two dozen" examples which are misusing the term adjunct as regards beer production/brewing.

    Cheers!
     
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  15. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
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    Jack, I have read on these very forums, many times, the assertion that Belgian candi sugar, as an example, is not a adjunct; I am not suggesting that is wrong, merely that I have heard plenty of disagreement on the subject. That is one example. Another would be maple syrup: is it an adjunct if and only if it is added during the boil? What if it is added post-boil, without a secondary fermentation, and with no opportunity for yeast to chow down on the sugars? Some call it an adjunct either way .... but that can't be correct, can it?

    Perhaps the confusion comes over your source, which cites two methods of using an adjunct: to supplement (or replace a portion of) the malt bill itself (e.g. rice), or to "impact some element of product quality such as color (either to darken or lighten it), flavor, or foam." By this definition, coffee and chocolate would absolutely be considered adjuncts, as they are being used to impact the flavor of the product. All of the additional ingredients used to affect the mouthfeel of a pastry stout or NE IPA (lactose and oats are common) would be considered adjuncts (and are, according to your source). Cinnamon and vanilla, even, are technically fermentable; do they make the cut? Whose opinion is the final say? I trust not yours or mine.

    Again, I am not confused - at least, not in the way you suggest. The term is not used with perfect consistency, even under sources you cite. The ingredients often called "adjuncts" by brewers that people are objecting to are, well, adjuncts. That's notwithstanding the actual definition, which is silently salient.



    I am not certain at which point "misuse" becomes, well, "use," but the more that number grows, the more a handful of nerds on a beer website comes to just sound like old men yelling at clouds, my friend.

    The first time "adjunct" was used to specifically reply to malt substitutions, it was undoubtedly "misuse," as the word itself predates its use in brewing. So, perhaps it is I who should not be surprised that there are "brewers/breweries in America" who continue to "misuse" the word adjunct and apply an unnecessarily restrictive filter. :wink:
     
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  16. islay

    islay Savant (1,211) Jan 6, 2008 Minnesota

    I listen to a bunch of national podcasts featuring interviews with brewers (Craft Beer & Brewing Magazine Podcast, Beer Sessions Radio, Beer Guys Radio, Brewbound Podcast, etc.). Respected brewers across the country unapologetically use "adjuncts" to refer to "flavoring adjuncts" very frequently. I'm sure I've heard it from over 100 brewers in such podcasts and in person. Get off the internet and start talking to actual brewers; a lot of people will be surprised by real industry jargon. Indeed, I'm absolutely positive that the broad definition is the rule, not the exception, in terms of actual usage within the industry. There's a lot of ignorance in this thread of how this term is actually used in the industry being displayed by people who purport to know how this term is used in the industry.
     
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  17. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader


    No no no, that is all misuse, because it hasn't been sanctioned by specific individuals, you see. Words are allowed to change meaning and usage, but only with their stamp of approval. :wink:
     
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  18. marquis

    marquis Pooh-Bah (2,313) Nov 20, 2005 England
    Pooh-Bah

    I never said that language does not change. In fact many of the misunderstandings in beer history have resulted from applying modern meanings to what was written a long time ago. Dr Johnson described the then new Saint Paul's Cathedral as "awful"… meaning that it filled him with awe.
    But brewers have jargon which are specific to the job in hand. Water is used for cleansing but is called liquor when used for brewing. And ingredients added to the malt which yielded fermentable sugars only because the excess malt enzymes broke down the complex carbohydrates were termed malt adjuncts. A two way process.
     
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  19. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    There is an old saying: “You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink”.

    From the OCB article I provided a link for you (with emphasis in bold by me):

    “Adjuncts are alternative sources of extract used to replace a proportion of the malt.”

    An ingredient like coffee provides zero extract and consequently is not an adjunct.

    You asked: “Whose opinion is the final say?”

    I have some more sources for you to read if you genuinely want to learn here:

    Bamforth, C. W.Scientific principles of malting and brewing. St Paul, MN: American Society of Brewing Chemists, 2006.

    Goode, D. L., & Arendt, E. K. “Developments in the supply of adjunct materials for brewing.” In Brewing: New technologies, ed. C.W. Bamforth, 30–67. Cambridge: Woodhead, 2006.

    Stewart, G. G. “Adjuncts.” In Handbook of Brewing, eds. F.G. Priest & G.G. Stewart, 161–175. Boca Raton, FL: CRC Press, 2006.

    Stewart, G.G., Anstruther, A, Russell, I. “Handbook of Brewing, Third Edition, CRC Press, 2017.

    Or you could decide to not read the material above. Your choice here.

    Cheers!
     
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  20. officerbill

    officerbill Pooh-Bah (2,228) Feb 9, 2019 New York
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    :+1:
    This is the crux of the matter. Way back when brewers started applying a specific meaning to a word which, outside the industry, had multiple meanings.

    How about letting adjunct refer to flavorings and convincing brewers to use something like Gärungshelfer (which Google tells me means fermentation helpers).
    Then we could have an American Gärungshelfer Lager category which sounds like an American version of some old European style.
     
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