Adjunct Misinformation

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by deleted_user_1007501, Dec 2, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    There is absolutely no doubt what your objectives are.
     
    officerbill likes this.
  2. islay

    islay Savant (1,211) Jan 6, 2008 Minnesota

    Well that's cryptic. I'll state my objectives: To clarify actual industry usage (in which the term "adjuncts" in practice usually includes flavorings), to encourage the adoption of the modern usage of the term that is better in keeping with the English language word rather than mere archaic and arguably confused past industry jargon, to end the myth that the term "adjuncts" can never properly include flavorings, to expose fellow BeerAdvocate users to the phenomenon that this debate is largely (though not completely) confined to the BeerAdvocate forums due to the special emphasis on the word "adjunct" at this site in particular (few non-BeerAdvocate-users have much emotional investment in the word), and to counter the misguided prejudice that those who utilize the broad and modern definition are inherently ignorant or spreading "misinformation."
     
    unlikelyspiderperson and Roguer like this.
  3. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Every industry has 'jargon' and the brewing industry is no different in this regard.
     
    officerbill, Junior and tolar111 like this.
  4. Junior

    Junior Pooh-Bah (1,883) May 23, 2015 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    The dictionary definition of adjunct does not equal the brewing industry definition of adjunct. So proper English is being used, but in a technical sense, it is not correct. In brewing terminology flavor additions are exactly that, not adjuncts.
     
    PapaGoose03 and JackHorzempa like this.
  5. officerbill

    officerbill Pooh-Bah (2,228) Feb 9, 2019 New York
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    The UC system? Nah. Maybe Auburn's program (grandmother's alma mater).
    :grin::beers:
     
    Junior likes this.
  6. tolar111

    tolar111 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,094) Aug 17, 2008 New York
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I've fallen into the use the correct brewing terminology when talking about beer camp.

    Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout - adjuct stout

    Founders Breakfast Stout - flavored adjuct stout

    If you're not using the correct terminology how does anyone know which one you're talking about when you ask - What's your favorite adjunct stout?
     
    PapaGoose03 and officerbill like this.
  7. officerbill

    officerbill Pooh-Bah (2,228) Feb 9, 2019 New York
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    TBH, who talks that way.
    I've been asked “what's your favorite (coffee, milk, maple, oatmeal, etc) stout?”, but I've never had anyone ask me “what's your favorite adjunct [insert beer style]?”

    Which is why, ideally, the industry & community would adopt “malting” and “flavoring” qualifiers, but I don't see that happening
     
    Roguer and PapaGoose03 like this.
  8. islay

    islay Savant (1,211) Jan 6, 2008 Minnesota

    I actually do hear many brewers referring to "adjunct stouts." They almost invariably mean "stouts using flavoring adjuncts." Because, in actual industry "jargon" in practice, flavorings are widely recognized as a form of "adjunct." The idea that brewers themselves mean "malt adjunct" when they say "adjunct" largely is an outdated myth to which a subset of BeerAdvocate users cling. In dictionary terms, it would be considered a secondary and "archaic" definition, even within the "jargon."
     
  9. tolar111

    tolar111 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,094) Aug 17, 2008 New York
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    This is the thread I was thinking of:

    https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/favorite-non-adjunct-ba-stouts.612118/

    Thought they were misusing the term adjunct. They are misusing non-adjunct
     
    officerbill likes this.
  10. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader


    Jack has made it very clear that there is no possibility for disagreement with his position. Anyone who states other than he believes in this matter is simply uneducated, regardless of the truth.

    Never mind that the industry usage of "adjunct" as a jargon term must have similarly arisen from an equally uneducated standpoint, based on his logic - otherwise, they would have consistently used "malt adjunct," instead of misappropriating an already extant word, and adjunct would never have been misused in that way. But .... uneducated is good if it sides with his position, apparently.
     
    unlikelyspiderperson and Pinz412 like this.
  11. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Absolutely no need to personalize things here.

    Make you point if you feel compelled but when communicating with others please leave my name out of it.
     
  12. hoptheology

    hoptheology Grand Pooh-Bah (5,379) May 12, 2014 South Dakota
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    ...I never meant to mislead anybody.
     
    oldbean, GuyFawkes, Coronaeus and 2 others like this.
  13. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader


    Considering it was a reply of his to your post, it's wholly appropriate. I did not evoke your name out of context.

    But fair enough: if you have decided that you are simply not going to even attempt to honestly address my question, I will cease engaging you on the topic. I suspect you have similarly decided not to bother trying to explain why you intentionally distorted my post in your previous reply to me.

    We've found common ground before on other topics, and while this clearly is not one of them, I'm sure we will again in the future.
     
    GuyFawkes likes this.
  14. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    That would be my hope as well.

    Cheers!
     
    GuyFawkes and Roguer like this.
  15. Coronaeus

    Coronaeus Grand Pooh-Bah (3,744) Apr 21, 2014 Canada (ON)
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    This may have been the convention within the industry for quite some time. As the first post in this thread illustrates, that is a convention that is changing. No brewer who uses the term adjunct to refer to the flavouring ingredients added to his or her pastry stout is confused as to what they are doing.

    Using the word adjunct to refer to a very specific kind of ingredient may have been appropriate in the past. Now, with the great proliferation of styles and increasingly diverse set of ingredients that go into making beer, the imprecision of that term is evident. Conventions in language change as the world language symbolizes changes.
     
    unlikelyspiderperson and Roguer like this.
  16. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader


    And the use of adjunct to refer specifically to malt adjunct was itself a change. The modern evolution of the term is not a perversion or misuse any more than it was when it began to be applied specifically to malt extract supplements.

    Some people seem only able to accept change that predates their own entry into the scene. It's OK that "adjunct" was co-opted and misused by the brewing industry; it's not OK if the same industry changes again.
     
  17. jasonmason

    jasonmason Zealot (742) Oct 6, 2004 California
    Society Trader

    Wanted to follow up on this once I had time for a full response, since you raise some good questions.

    I don't think "adjunct" in and of itself has that negative of connotation. I think within the craft community most of us know that what have long been considered adjuncts (rye, oats, rice, candi sugar, etc...) are essential to some of the most storied and flavorful beers made. Any BA worth their salt knows that additives can make for amazing beers. I'd assume the general public has little to no idea or opinion as to brewing adjuncts other than what a commercial may have told them or they overheard someone discussing.

    Where I feel the pushback arises is the very rapid co-opting of a huge spectrum of ingredients into what has traditionally been a fairly narrow, if not formally defined, classification. For a long time I think outside the occasional outlier, beer was pretty much made by "beer ingredients". Yes there were spiced winter warmers and Belgian Quads and Gose, but the addition of "flavoring adjuncts" was rare enough to be a novelty. The sudden onslaught of additive-heavy beers in the last few years has turned this on it's head, to the point that it's arguably harder to find "pure" versions of many styles as opposed to those produced with additives. There are a large number of beers right now that arguably do feel as though they're "cheating" by utilizing additives - creating beers so loaded with additives not essential to the brewing process that it's impossible to really taste the beer itself. If a beer is loaded up with chocolate, vanilla, german chocolate cake, and graham crackers, is there way to really judge the craft behind it? This isn't necessarily "cheating" to emulate a style that could be done additive-free; it's adding so many ingredients that the character of any sort of base beer is lost. In my mind, that's where I make the shift from adjunct to additive - where the leap is made from enhancing the character of the beer, to eclipsing it.

    With your last point - it's an interesting question, but I think a not-insignificant subset of the contemporary craft drinker sees adjunct as a cool, sexy word. I honestly think it's as simple as that. It sounds fancier than additives or flavoring, but the truly more accurate definition is simply denoting the style and the additions, whatever guise they are presented in.
     
    Roguer and unlikelyspiderperson like this.
  18. CheapHysterics

    CheapHysterics Initiate (0) Apr 1, 2009 Pennsylvania

    I think we can all agree that meaning of adjunct is evolving to include things that it didn't used to. Purists will gnash their teeth while others will taunt them to get with the times. This is always what happens as language evolves, and it explains why teenagers talking to each other sound so profoundly stupid when heard by my adult ears.

    However, there is no way that you can call the fermentable sugars definition of adjuncts archaic, which implies it's a super old fashioned usage that no one says anymore.
     
  19. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    And it is appropriate in 2019 as well.

    The issue is not the times are changing. The issue is that within the Brewing Industry the word "adjunct" has a very specific meaning. As has been discussed above it is a situation of technical jargon within the Brewing Industry.

    Recently some American craft brewers have decided to co-opt that word for other reasons (i.e., flavorings).

    You may have the view that a subset of American craft brewers who choose to add 'add-junks' in their beer get to change the meaning of a word like "adjunct' but others (including me) think differently.

    Cheers!
     
  20. jasonmason

    jasonmason Zealot (742) Oct 6, 2004 California
    Society Trader

    Didn't get this last point in before my edit clock expired:

    In reading a few more recent posts, I would argue that it's not the responsibility to the craft community to automatically accept or justify the modification in usage of certain words just because it is done by a few brewers. While language can and does change, it is not obliged to accept every change without question. Some changes stick, others do not; this one appears to be in flux. This conversation is evidence of that, and is a good thing.
     
    #220 jasonmason, Jan 3, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.