Are your beer ratings linear?

Talk Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by MNAle, Jan 9, 2020.

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  1. MNAle

    MNAle Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    This might be a topic only for statisticians, engineers, and similarly-minded math geeks, but I've realized my ratings are decidedly non-linear.

    Let me explain.

    A linear rating approach would mean each .25 increment in the BA rating scale means pretty much the same thing in perceived "goodness" increase to you. I've realized this is NOT true for me.

    I've found that there is much, much less difference between increments from 3.00 to 4.00 than there is between 4.00 and 5.00. IOW, it takes much more to go from 4 to 4.25 than it does from 3.75 to 4, and more again to go from 4.25 to 4.5, and it is very difficult to get a rating above 4.5 from me. I've never issued a 5 rating (IIRC, anyway... I haven't gone back to examine all my reviews / ratings...)

    The same is true below 3.0 as well, although my personal sample size is small. IOW, a beer has to be really, really awful to fall below 2.5.

    I guess I'm a "tough grader" on the very good and a "easy grader" on the very bad.

    Any comments about my "system"?

    To my topic question, are your ratings linear?
     
  2. TheIPAHunter

    TheIPAHunter Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,026) Aug 12, 2007 California
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I love you, but...

    Your intro screams, I'm one of those three, and I see beer in a more abstract way than the average BA. Sir...
     
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  3. MNAle

    MNAle Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    Well, I am one of those three (an engineer), and as a result, I do notice things like linearity, etc... and maybe most (rational) people don't care about such things.

    Not meant to be exclusive at all; but perhaps a bit of self-questioning "am I doing this right"?
     
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  4. TheIPAHunter

    TheIPAHunter Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,026) Aug 12, 2007 California
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    As I said, I love you. Carry on. I'm sure this will generate some good responses.
     
  5. bbtkd

    bbtkd Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,790) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I concur with your non-linearity, and I probably use even less of the scale. I rate almost none below 3.5 and few above 4.5. A beer has to really suck to get below a 3 from me. Beers below 4 I may have again if offered it or no other choices, but sure wouldn't buy a pack. Most of the beer I buy packs of and/or cellar are ones I rated over 4.25.

    Most of the beer I buy are singles to review, and I won't generally try one unless it's rated over 4 unless I suspect by the description I might like it anyway. Life is too short to drink beers with a good chance of sucking. I'd rather spend my time and money on highly rated beers less likely to disappoint. That said, there are some brewers where I will try anything they make, such as Prairie, Founders, Avery, Drekker, White Elm, Surly, Central Waters, GI BCBS, and Boulevard.
     
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  6. Rug

    Rug Grand Pooh-Bah (3,454) Aug 20, 2018 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Yeah, the difference between increments of .25 vs quality is very much a parabolic shape in this sense. Above and below 3.5 is where I would say my ratings make a “difference”, for lack of a better word
     
  7. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    He's doing maths! Anything to say about that? :wink:
     
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  8. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Yeah, I agree with this, but perhaps, for me at least, it's the .5 jumps that are harder. If I'm having two beers that are very similar (both in the say 3.25 range), I'm likely to bump one of the numbers (either up or down) so that they're not given exactly the same score. So, while one beer might end with something in the 3.1 range, and the other nearer to 3.2, to me they're the same beer.

    But, a 3.5 beer is leagues better than the 3.0, and noticeably better than the 3.25. And, no, I am not any of the three things you list at the top of your OP. :wink:
     
  9. rgordon

    rgordon Pooh-Bah (2,701) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Some of my very best teachers through the years (there were many) operated this way in dealing with all of the disparities of students and general demographics. Closely watching students that need assistance is the mark of a great teacher. Parcing achievers is not as hard to do and generally works itself out nicely. Rating beers does seem to be a mostly benevolent exercise.
     
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  10. TootyMcButtface

    TootyMcButtface Initiate (0) Feb 16, 2019 Kansas

    Why do people withhold 5 star ratings for beer? I know people who refuse to give a beer 5 stars and I have never understood this concept. If I love a beer, I'm happy to give it the highest score possible. And yes, more than one beer is eligible to earn that score.

    To answer the OP, I rate purely by feel. I have arbitrary lines in my mind that go approximately like so:
    >4.5 - one of my favorite beers and something I'd keep in my fridge if possible
    >4 - something I would buy again and I really enjoy
    Between 2.5 and 4 - something I'd happily drink, but wouldn't seek it out or buy it
    Between 1 and 2.5 - basically all your crappy cheap beers
    <1 - something I would not drink even for free.

    The reason I dislike people not using 5 star ratings is because when your theoretical best possible score you're willing to give is 4.25/5, then that's only a B grade to the beer. And that blows my mind. So you've never had a beer that earned an A???

    (Not directed at the OP in particular, I have wondered this for awhile)
     
  11. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Well, on this website, you're not allowed to give a below 1 score. And, that's quite a jump from 2.5 to 4.

    For me, a 4 is truly great beer, one that gets you excited, and there's relatively few of those. With over 3600 ratings, and over 3200 full reviews, I've only given 4 5s, 126 from 4.25-4.75, and 162 4s. That's 192 beers out of well over 3000 that are that exceptional. On the other han, from 1-2, inclusive, there are only 62 beers. so yes, in my experience there are far more good beers than bad, but the exceptions on either end are very rare.
     
  12. TootyMcButtface

    TootyMcButtface Initiate (0) Feb 16, 2019 Kansas

    I guess my point is mostly semantics but it's weird that a 4/5 (80%, B- grade) classifies as truly great. In your example, you've rated 292 out of 3000 at 4/5 or better, meaning less than 10% of beers earned a B grade. That just strikes me as odd. You aren't the exception though, I've noticed the general populace tends to grade similarly.

    If beers had to be assigned a score on a scale from 1-100 instead of 1-5, I wonder how different they might look.
     
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  13. MNAle

    MNAle Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    Well, if you consider each increment to be equal to the next on a linear scale, it is worse than that. Since 0 to 1 does not exist, a 4 is 75%.

    If there was an equivalent letter grade, it would definitely be a non-linear curve. Anything above 4.0 would be in the A range (A- to A+).
     
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  14. Mister_Faucher

    Mister_Faucher Initiate (0) Dec 3, 2014 Washington

    For the record, to @beertunes in perspective your average beer rating is 3.42, right bro? You admitted that when Todd and crew expanded the ratings options.

    I'll stop short of calling you jaded. But your perspective on quality beers is definitely skewed.

    And we in fact DO have several similar ratings on OUR local beers, on some.
     
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  15. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Oh, sure. I disagree with the word "skewed" though, I think all the high ratings for hype beers are skewed. We saw it in the other thread, with statements along the lines of "I only buy highly rated beers that I know will be good, so I give them high ratings". In other words folks are rating beers highly because others are rating them highly. It's worse over on UT though. Shrug.

    I've said before that the more you try, the more the more the number moves to average. It can still be a great beer, but it might be one of a hundred great beers of that style I've had, so, it's closer to average. My "average" beer is pretty damn good, but that in and of itself doesn't raise it above average. Shrug.
     
  16. Mister_Faucher

    Mister_Faucher Initiate (0) Dec 3, 2014 Washington


    I'll agree to a degree, there are few and far between beers where I'm like, "Holy Shit!, This is killer!", perfect example over this summer, Pizza Port/Modern Times 'Gentle Reminder' average at best and $16 a four pack!?

    I'd much rather hit Walmart and get a sixer of Cedardust :slight_smile:
     
    #16 Mister_Faucher, Jan 10, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2020
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  17. WesMantooth

    WesMantooth Grand Pooh-Bah (4,844) Jan 8, 2014 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I’ve never understood the scoring system starting at 1. I wish it would have been that way in high school. It’s like getting credit for putting your name on your paper.
     
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  18. Griggsy

    Griggsy Initiate (0) Mar 24, 2013 Colorado

    I am definitely a math-minded person, and I definitely am non-linear in my ratings. A beer has to be borderline non-drinkable for me to give below a 3. Typically, 3.5 is what I would consider a perfectly average beer. 3.75 is above average, 4 is good, 4.25 is great, 4.5 is really great, 4.75 is fantastic, and 5 is one of the best beers I've ever had. I know that it makes no sense. based on what a 1 to 5 scale is supposed to be. But I cannot help but rate things in this manner. I don't even record these ratings at this point, but if someone asks me what rating I'd give it, I still end up using this absurdly non-linear scale.
     
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  19. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I would go with partially linear, perhaps.

    Meaning: by intent, yes, my ratings are linear. In practice, however, I suspect I'm more like you (@MNAle ), in particular the closer one ranges toward 3.0. I think I'm actually pretty consistent from 3.5 to 5.0, but below 3.5, I'm probably a very generous rater.

    Interesting topic, no doubt.
     
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  20. Mister_Faucher

    Mister_Faucher Initiate (0) Dec 3, 2014 Washington

    So are you saying you would give... say a Goose Island Bourbon Barrel aged a higher rating on a 95 degree day over say... a Gose/Wild on that same day? I tend to take style and the seasonal conditions in to consideration as a determining factor.

    The main factor being my personal experience within the same style.
     
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