Honey in beer

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by VitisVinifera, Jan 17, 2020.

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  1. VitisVinifera

    VitisVinifera Pundit (879) Feb 25, 2013 California

    No, not honey beers or meads. But honey used as an.........adjunct? I guess that term will never be settled but you guys here know what I'm talking about.

    Years ago Sam Adams made a honey porter that they put into their winter mixed pack, and that was my favorite of the mix. But over Christmas I had the pleasure of enjoying an Urban Roots Demons Run, which is a bourbon barrel imperial stout with honey. It was really really nice.

    The honey flavor just goes so well with beer, yet lactose is in every other beer. I know lactose is an unfermentable sugar, but is there something about honey that makes it more likely to be refermented? If so how do the few breweries produce beer with honey? Any other really nice honey-flavored serious beers out there?
     
  2. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I enjoy fresh hop slam due to the honey used. And yeah, adjunct is the correct term.
     
  3. Mister_Faucher

    Mister_Faucher Initiate (0) Dec 3, 2014 Washington

    I used to care about the Reinheitsgebot when I was younger. But certain things that make a beer better are ok in my book now.
     
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  4. ovaltine

    ovaltine Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,787) Apr 6, 2010 Indiana
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I had uber fresh Hopslam from Bell’s last night, a howitzer of a DIPA brewed with honey. It was truly magnificent, as always .....

    [​IMG]
     
  5. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I believe some commercial "honey" beers are back-sweetened, post-fermentation - that is, flash-pasteurized (or the yeast killed by some other process) and then the honey added. In which case, since it does not add to the "fermentables", the honey is not an adjunct, based the traditional (and correct) definition.
     
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  6. Bitterbill

    Bitterbill Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,036) Sep 14, 2002 Wyoming
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Ty at our local brewery, Skull Tree, is a fan of using local honey in some of his beers. I've had no complaints so far.
     
  7. Bitterbill

    Bitterbill Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,036) Sep 14, 2002 Wyoming
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    I'm hoping to see this in Casper for the first time. I already made the strong suggestion. :wink:
     
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  8. VitisVinifera

    VitisVinifera Pundit (879) Feb 25, 2013 California

    Do you think small, high-end batches of BBA RIS with honey are pasteurized?
     
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  9. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    You seem to imply hopslam is one of those beers. Is this an accurate assessment?

    Edit, with an OG of 1.087 and ABV at %10 I am doubting it is back sweetened. It would take some post brew day honey additions to get an ABV that high.
    Double edit or an FG below 1.011
     
    #9 SFACRKnight, Jan 18, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
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  10. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Unlikely, but I guess it's dependent on the brewery. You asked, ".. how do the few breweries produce beer with honey?" and that's one way.

    Nope. Sorry, don't know how you read that beer into my comment. Something like Genesee's Honey Brown is (probably) an example.

    Honey added post-fermentation and after pasteurization would have no affect on alcohol content.
     
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  11. Bitterbill

    Bitterbill Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,036) Sep 14, 2002 Wyoming
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    And I see Genesee Honey Brown on at least one shelf in Casper again. I don't get why it's there after so many years. I really can't imagine a demand for it.
     
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  12. ichorNet

    ichorNet Pooh-Bah (2,565) Mar 16, 2010 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    Lamplighter out of Boston, MA area makes an amazing IPA w/ honey called Lawyers, Guns, & Honey. Definitely the best normal IPA I've had with honey as an ingredient... HopSlam is fantastic as well.
     
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  13. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    It comes down to complex sugars and simple sugars. Lactose is a complex sugar and is not fermentable by standard brewers' yeast. Honey is a simple sugar that is fully fermentable leaving nothing but alcohol behind (and a slight bit of the honey's flavor).

    Suggestions above about how to keep the honey flavor in the finished beer are plausible, but no one has mentioned artificial honey flavoring yet. Yeah, it's possible.
     
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  14. VitisVinifera

    VitisVinifera Pundit (879) Feb 25, 2013 California

    That's what I'm getting at. How would a bourbon barrel RIS, probably very limited release, high end once per year release be stabilized such that honey wouldn't referment? I would be surprised if it was by sterile filtration because those 0.5 micron membrane filters would probably be constantly clogging up due to high-MW polysaccharides and unattenuated starches. I'm tempted to take this question to the Reddit brewing forum, and I'm sure I'd get a solid answer, but I kinda don't want to pollute their forum with noob questions coming from a winemaker.
     
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  15. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Did that beer taste sweet? If so, natural honey is probably in the beer along with all its sugar.

    Killing the yeast and then adding honey received a cursory mention above, and that can be done with the addition of a chemical to handle that job. (I forget it's name, but I'm certain that it is also commonly used by winemakers so you are probably already familiar with it.)
     
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  16. VitisVinifera

    VitisVinifera Pundit (879) Feb 25, 2013 California

    Velcorin. It's very, very nasty stuff. I got accidentally exposed to it once, and this was years ago before occ health laws have been passed dealing with Velcorin (safety measures, etc).

    Given this was a big bourbon barrel RIS, you know how they are.......more intense than anything, and what may be perceived as sweet by some may be savory or malty to others. I def got the honey, which is why I liked it so much and wanted to follow up with this.
     
  17. CheapHysterics

    CheapHysterics Initiate (0) Apr 1, 2009 Pennsylvania

    Next I'm in MA I will definitely seek this one out based on the Warren Zevon reference alone.
     
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  18. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    So you are saying hopslam is backsweetened? Sugar additions added after fermentation would lower the FG and increase abv UNLESS the beer has been pasteurized, however my response regarding a change in abv in regards to a post fermentation addition does imply that the yeast are still active. I simply read that you felt hopslam was backsweetened due to the fact that it was one of two beers listed before your comment. I still dont know if the honey is added after pasteurization in the case of hopslam. They, Bells, seem to get an extreme amount of honey flavor to express itself through a significant amount of hop flavors and alcohol. I would be surprised if they managed that through a honey addition during the boil.
     
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  19. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    That Velcorin sounds like a trade name and doesn't sound familiar. Here's a link to a Q&A on this topic. I think the potassium sorbate was what I was trying to think of. https://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/a3qtmu/how_to_kill_yeast_for_a_fruit_beer/
     
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  20. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Camden tablets added post fermentation will kill any active yeast.
     
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