End of 2nd wave?

AMEN.

I think far too many brewers have an encyclopedia of maybe 10-20 beers they've tried, and try a whack at it and when it's up to snuff of those 10 or 20 beers they've tried, perhaps Fat Tire and UFO Hefe and a few pilsners and porters, they amass some money and get started. Seasoned craft beer drinkers don't want that.

I think a good brewer has a combination of talent, engineering, and true genuine beer knowledge.

We have entirely too many mediocre beers in the craft beer world.

 

It's fantastic that we have so much talent emerging, but because of the craft explosion we also get the weeds with the foliage.

It's almost like musical artists that need to stay relevant...chasing trends is silly I think, but honestly unfortunately it is an industry somewhat based in relevancy due to college kids/popularity/trends/whatver. Hype is not everything though, there are a few brewers that are pretty overhyped IMO, and I have never found anything appealing about them.

Competition is fierce in certain markets. I think bad breweries/breweries with bad products eventually close, but not all of them, because people who don't know any better (in more ways than one) keep them in business. I'll usually give a brewery 6-8 chances (or, beers) to impress me, and if it doesn't happen, I move on forever and ever amen.

 

Is that southdenver wahoo wah? My family has been genetically attached to UVA and Richmond since way before me. The von Poellnitz boys came from south Alabama to become doctors in Charlottesville, only to later become Confederate officers. It is still the Harvard of the south. Timing is most everything.

 

We quietly make good beer here and we intend to stay beneath the constant radar of shifting social cultural truths that really don't matter.

 

Woodgrain has had some outstanding BA stouts. Other than that, you are correct, no standout locals that come close to the regionals Surly, Fair State, Central Waters, White Elm, or Drekker.

 

Out of sheer curiosity Jack, which beer festival was it?

 

It was held in Selinsgrove.

Cheers!

 

Are they doing more BA stouts on the regular now? I haven't been inspired to drop by on the 1 or 2 times I've seen/heard about a BA tap release from them in the last year. I'd be interested to try one because I loves me a good barrel aged beer (as long as it translates)!

We have great distribution here as far as stouts go but it's an IPA desert IMO. I had to resort to nearly a case of Hazy Little Thing to keep my juice addiction at bay (fresh Sue or Nug or Pompeii was nowhere) It's a good beer but that sucked. Tons of hazy coming in from other bordering states, none of them very good though.

On another note I just remember shooting the breeze with the brewer from Severance before they opened and him talking about his upcoming monster cookie stout like it was the best thing beer has ever seen, said it was massive and was going to change the way people looked at beer. He wasn't like overly boastful but he was excited, as was I. It ended up being a basic iron-y oatmeal stout with hints of chocolate shell. It wasn't terrible, it was just terribly mediocre. That seems to be the norm - SFSD breweries think they're doing something completely groundbreaking and it may be innovative for the area, but it's still pretty average. "Hey guys, this beer was brewed with passion fruit!" Average SF drinker : "What? You can do that?"

It will improve eventually but in the meantime I just get by with stouts and barley wines from Wisconsin and Nebraska. Lol.

(P.S. IMO, the best brewery in the area (besides Lupulin, even though it is just a tap room, it is no contest) is Obscure. I really thought all of their beers hit the mark for style examples and there was nothing I could really complain about. But it wasn't exciting enough for me to return. They just make beers by the book and it seems to work.) Cheers

 

First off, I would not refer to the current craft beer wave as the 2nd wave, I feel it's more like wave 4 or 5. I agree there's a lot of good beer currently, but also more bad than good that's creating way to much glut. There's also a complete lack of variety when it comes to traditional lagers/ales and way to much experimental beers from Brewers that lack the fundamentals to make a solid traditional lager/ale.

 

Hmmm well our markets are.clearly a little different and possibly our outlooks. I have a hard time imagining a situation where a store can have a massive beer selection AND not have any out of code beer in there. The major areas where I see this potentially being improved are:
1. Breweries dialing in their production schedule and distribution footprints
2. Retailers getting a hold on their ordering, possibly ordering a narrower variety or simply ordering more delicate styles in smaller volumes.
3. A rise in small craft centric distributors
4. Consumers becoming more aware of freshness and leaving old beer alone which could be the main driver of the other three.

My limited experience tells me that this stuff is already slowly happening in the better beer markets but there are plenty of areas where few if any of these things are changing and no one seems to care

 

But is the level of bad the same now as it was then? I'm guessing not.

 

A rising tide raises all ships (even 'crappy' ones ). That said, I'm pretty sure 95% of all markets are better. You just need to be a little more discerning now. Thinking the third wave in every set is the best. But after that it may correct. I have faith this market will figure it out (as long as we keep the gov't from meddling too much).

 

Unfortunately the Philly area is one of the "no one seems to care" areas as regards beer stores/retailers.

Anecdotally it seems like a significant portion of the beer geek segment is 'responding' by drinking beers from small, local craft breweries (both for on premise and for take home).

Cheers to drinking fresh, locally produced beer!

 

That's a shame about the philly area, perhaps your embarrassment of riches in terms of localish beer production leaves the retail sector serving only the least concerned beer consumers.
On the west coast I am seeing a definite rise in stores that carry a smaller stock, especially of ipas and other more delicate offerings which are all refrigerated. There's still old stock everywhere, but I see retailers whose focus is beer/nicer alcoholic beverages at least attempting to adapt.
The strategy that I think has the.most potential to really put a dent in the old beer problem is stores getting occasional drops (1-4 times per year) from distant breweries. This provides an amazing variety to consumers with a smaller total volume on hand and is probably very positive for the breweries because they get exposure in distant markets in the best possible light (their beer arrives reasonably fresh and disappears from shelves quickly).
The biggest downside is, of course, price. From what I have seen these stores sell everything at premium prices. But if you are insistent that you receive premium service (i.e. a world class selection of always fresh beer) then you should be prepared to pay premium prices.
In any case, it seems like another area where very large breweries moving huge volumes and very small local breweries that can be flexible have a big advantage over mid sized regional brewers

 

I am not in the beer business but it seems to me that 'critical' link here is the Wholesale Distributor. It is easier (and cheaper when considering quantity buy discounts) to just make one big order vs. multiple smaller orders. I witness this every year when my local Wholesale Distrbutor obtain one BIG drop of Sierra Nevada Oktoberfest in the middle of summer and those beer 'bake' in my local Retail Beer Distributors (who are non-air conditioned) until the 'season' of Oktoberfest arrives. I personally have not purchased any SN Oktoberfest beers in years. My Oktoberfest money instead went to my local breweries (e.g., Workhorse Brewing which released their Oktoberfest the second week of September) instead.

If Sierra Nevada refused to deliver one HUGE drop of SN Oktoberfest beer that would be great for me but it seems that SN is happy to just get one fat check in July instead?

Cheers!

 

Sad for Founders and Bell since they are losing relevance?
Sad for your tastes evolving?
Sad that you don't blindly pay $20 for a mediocre sixer anymore?

I guess I'm not understanding the sentiment.

The breweries that don't change with the times should be left in the dust. I don't know why so many of the old school peeps refuse to budge on their overpriced maybe-wasn't-ever-that-great beer. Like even the revered Russian River Pliny is starting to shelf-turd at its $7/bottle price at local places. It's not a bad beer by any means, but at that price - it kinda is. [Note: I'd be perfectly happy paying $7/pint for a draught pour of it, or even better $5 @ Toronado during HH. But these single bottle IPAs from Russian River & Maine Beer Co. should be on their way out.]

 

I left a comment in another thread but it's relevant here for those interested re: shelf space dwindling for craft beer:

Rant: Wegman's cleared the shelves of winter beers to make room for PBR Hard Coffee

It's the same for me. These expensive four/six packs just aren't worth the cost to me anymore because I get the same (and sometimes even better) drinking experience from some of the cheaper stuff nowadays. Except for the Founders BA stuff, now that I will still typically buy but that is because I find them to be different enough from each other vs the DIPAs, where outside of a few minor nuances they all pretty much taste close enough that if a $11 pack is close to something like Hop Slam at $18.99, what is the point of me buying HS? Plus the BA stuff ages well nine times out of ten and that's another big value factor for me.

But it is remarkable when I think back to the days when Nugget Nectar and Hop Slam would be impossible to keep on the shelves and now stacks just sit there. Also, interesting to think how many of the hype beers faded away entirely e.g. Lagunitas Sucks.

Yeah I guess this is really part of it, where the old hype beers are just not that good anymore; and arguably were they ever? I know that I had a tough time getting behind some of them when they first came out (but of course this is all subjective).

 

You have elucidated exactly why, to me, getting the continuous freshness we would all love will inherently come at a higher price. Everyone except the consumer would prefer to do larger batches, which leads to older beer more often

 

But I am able to purchase fresh, locally produced beers at economical prices. If my local beer retailers (e.g., Retail Beer Distributors) start pricing non-locally produced beers (e.g., Sierra Nevada) at higher prices to ensure freshness my answer will be F@#% You and my money will solely be spent on local beers that are economically priced.

In other words for the distributing beer industry (brewery from out of state (like CA) -> Wholesale Distributor -> Retailer) if you can't provide fresh beer at reasonable prices my money will go elsewhere.

If you are willing to pay more for fresh, distributed beer well, that is your money. Spend it the way you will.

Cheers!