Victory Brewing (2020)

Victory now vs then is night and day. Baltic Thunder, Yakima Glory, Storm King...they were pioneers in the early days and now pretty commercial. I am not knocking them, definitely some clear benefits to a business heading in this direction and growing like they did but the shift has been noticeable; it will be interesting to see what the future brings.

 

I hear what you're saying, but it's not so much chasing styles as it is listening to what customers want. If you are a newer startup brewery you've likely just spent a big chunk of cash getting your brewery up and running and want to see a financial return as quick as possible. In most cases right now, the fastest way to do that is selling $20 four-packs of IPAs. I can't tell you how many times I've gone on a new brewery's social media feed and someone in the comments asks, "Are you selling cans yet?" Same can be said for an older brewery (like Victory) that still needs to pay the bills but can't afford to lose customers to new breweries. Others might disagree, but I think Victory has done a good job of staying relevant while not losing their identity.

 

I’m not inferring that breweries shouldn’t cater to what’s “hot” on the market but when it comes to a brewery like Victory, why not stick with what made them one of the best craft breweries in the first place? I’m not privy to how sales are for what beers and I guess I’m to assume the sales must have been down but for this brewery (and Troegs to a certain extent) why brew all these fruited beers at the expense of Cultivator or Braumeister Pils or Yakima Glory or Old Horizontal?

 

I have mad respect for Victory, but the one thing I am not fond of is the new Prima recipe. May be subtle, but I still prefer the original for sure. For me, it comes across less complex than it used to be. I have had a few kegs of Prima at my house over the years, plus many bottles/cans of course, but every since the change i'm not digging it like I used to. Was almost my #1 pils, not so sure anymore.

They made it less bitter and pushed hops later in the boil if I recall, likely due to market palate changes to 'softer', less aggressive beers perhaps?

Either way, I don't see Victory as much around Cleveland as I used to. It's hard to find Prima and it's rare I even come across much else. I wonder if they curbed production to open up more space for the contracted brewing? (Sixpoint and Southern Tier)? Or just distro being flooded with way too much beer?

 

FWIW I am with you here. I used to be a fan of Prima Pils. I purchased two 6-packs of the 'new' Prima Pils over a period of a few months to see if I could 'learn to like it' but I was not successful in my attempts. The 'new' Prima Pils is not a bad beer but I much preferred the old formulation. My 'solution' here is that I just buy Pilsners from other breweries. If Victory ever decided to package Braumeister Pils that would be a 6-pack I would be willing to purchase.

Cheers!

 

I agree completely. Why are we “hopping up” everything? I end up buying cheap German tallboys most of the time because I know I’m getting (for the most part) a traditional pilsner for a great price. I haven’t had the newer Prima, pretty much because I haven’t seen it, but the OG Prima was a go-to at a good price. And, ftr, I loved Stoudt’s too, but I haven seen that in NY in at least 2 years.

 

I would recommend that if you ever locate a single of the 'new' Prima Pils (or on tap) that you give it a try. There is a possibility you might enjoy it? I didn't hate the 12 bottles of the 'new' Prima Pils that I drank but for every one of those beers I couldn't help but think: "Why did they change this beer?".

Cheers!

P.S. I discussed the 'new' Prima Pils in a New Beer Sunday thread:

https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/new-beer-sunday-week-742.613942/#post-6493195

 

I think that about a lot of beers. I don’t get it. Why fix something that ain’t broke?

Reading that NBS post, your descriptors remind me of Jack’s Abby Post Shift which I have to admit, I enjoy quite a bit.

 

Yeah, there's a difference between going all-in, and maybe diversifying things a bit. SN and FW have shown that you can add some trendy selections while still remaining true to yourself. Victory seems to have gone too far in the other direction.

 

Yep, agreed completely.

 

Well, as I quoted in my NBS post, Ron Barchett (formerly a co-owner of Victory prior to the sale of the brewery to Artisanal Beverage Ventures) thought that Prima Pils needed to be ‘fixed’:

“Barchet noticed that he wasn’t able to drink the same quantity of Prima as he used to—by the third beer, his palate felt a little tired. He and the brewing team decided that dropping the beer’s bitterness level ever so slightly—from 50 bitterness units to about 45—might do the trick. Victory’s brewers also changed their process to incorporate Prima’s hops at a different point in the brewing process—almost entirely in the hopback rather than the brew kettle—which gives the beer more hop aroma with less hop bitterness.

“We’re really happy with how it came out. It’s a little more of a modern take based on where taste buds are and where the market is,” Barchet says. “We felt that if Prima was going to carry on, we need to get it a little more modern.”

Needless to say but I prefer the ‘non-modern’ version of Prima Pils.

Cheers!

 

Well, in the case of Sierra Nevada they did indeed "add" to their portfolio but they also deleted as well. For example they decided to discontinue Nooner Pilsner. And while their beers of Stout and Porter are technically not discontinued they limit this beer to such a level that I personally never see them at my local beer retailers while 5-10 years ago I could purchase them.

For the situation of Firestone Walker it seems to me that they have concentrated heavily on their second brand of 805 such that I often can't even find old Firestone Walker beers (e.g., Pivo Pils, Union Jack) on my local beer retailers shelves.

There is a local craft beer bar that 'always' has Pivo Pils on tap and this is where I get my Pivo Pils fix. I used single quotes with the word always since on my last visit I did not even look at the beer menu and ordered my usual of Pivo Pils to be told: "We kicked the keg two days ago and for some reason we could not obtain another keg. I think by next weekend we will be able to obtain our regular keg of Pivo Pils". WTF, they can't even meet their keg commitments to a bar that has a dedicated tap for their beer? Does Firestone Walker not 'recognize' how difficult it is to have a dedicated tap in these hyper competitive times? While I do not wish ill will on Firestone Walker here (since I am a fan of Pivo Pils) but it would serve them right to lose this tap handle to Sterling Pig Shoat Pilsner (or some other high quality locally brewed Pilsner).

Cheers!

 

haha, gosh I'd love to drink with this guy, he'd probably drink me under the table though. If you have @guinness77 like stated above give the prima a try. Prima has always been my favorite, and as an original lover I'm in the minority but I love the new one just as much...if not more. And even if you don't like it like everyone said above still a great beer, I haven't seen anyone flat out say they hate it...(awaits contrary posts)

 

Well,...I would not agree with the word "great" here.

The word "hate" is not used but in the below TV episode (at around the 12:40 mark) you can hear Joe Sixpack (real name Don Russell) uses the 'new' Victory Prima Pils to illustrate how breweries are "dumbing down" beers:



If I was forced to take a multiple choice 'test' and the question was "How would you describe the 'new' Victory Prima Pils?" and the two choices were:

A: Great

B: Dumbed down from its original version

I could not in good conscience select A so I would feel compelled to select B here.

Cheers!

 

Because they don't want to become Stoudts or Smuttynose or...

 

For the most part, Victory has stuck with some of their more popular beers and what got them recognition: Hop Devil is still a very good beer, Dirt Wolf remains popular, Golden Monkey is super popular, and the "brand extension" of Golden Monkey is pretty logical. They're trying the same philosophy with Summer Love for a Summer Hazy Love Hazy IPA Look at Left Hand and their extension of the Nitro brand, or New Holland's extension of the "Dragon Milk" brand to multiple stouts. Can't fault them for taking that approach.

On the other hand, that Brut IPA makes no sense especially with the timing of the beer, that Juice Boost didn't seem to go over too well, Limey Gose didn't seem to catch on either. Let's hope Kirsch Gose isn't discontinued!

As my posts would infer, I am a big fan of Victory, so the above may have some bias.

 

Or Weyerbacher. Exactly.

The changes to the traditional styles don't surprise me. That they cut back on Storm King instead of launching 20 BA varieties of it does. I would think that even a non-BA imperial stout could find a spot in the marketplace.

 

Java Cask deliciously fills the BA stout role.

But to your point, Victory really needs a solid, non-seasonal/non-BA dark beer in their portfolio, whether a porter or a stout.

 

I may have missed it, but was Java Cask out this year? Did it go into distribution? Thought I saw that it was in four packs but have never seen it.

 

I think it was discontinued, at least in bottles. I'm super bummed about it, as it was one of my go to's every summer.