Biotransformation or just dry hop

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Curmudgeon, Mar 30, 2020.

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  1. Curmudgeon

    Curmudgeon Savant (1,110) May 29, 2014 Massachusetts
    BA4LYFE Society

    Advocates,

    Mr. sporadic brewer here. I whipped up a neipa batch on Saturday and fermentation took off pretty good yesterday. I'm down to my last bits of hops and want to use them all up. Remaining:

    Galaxy - 2.8oz
    Mosaic - 1.5oz
    Strata - 1.0oz

    I guess yeast strain can impact this so FWIW, I'm using Imperial Yeast A24 Dry Hop. I was just going to do a simple keg dry hop when fermentation is complete but wondering if I should split these up and throw some in today (commando!) for some biotransformation "benefits". I know this topic has been hashed out quite a bit - just hopping for some fresh thoughts. Thanks for any ideas!
     
  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    That is my understanding as well - some strains will 'biotransform' and some won't. I personally have no idea which 'category' that A24 falls into here. I attended a Hopping Science presentation at HomebrewCon 2018 where the presenter (Chris Hotz - Ballast Point R&D guy) stated that biotransformation is dependent on hop variety as well.

    The 'downside' of adding hops prior to active fermentation being complete is that there will be a loss of hop aromatics since there will be CO2 scrubbing that occurs due to outgassing.

    I would suggest that if what you are seeking is maximization of hop aroma you add the hops after primary fermentation is complete. If you are willing to lose some aromatics but seek the potential for possible complexity from biotransformation split the hops between two additions (i.e., some when primary fermentation is winding down and some after active fermentation is complete).

    Cheers!
     
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  3. 209Hill

    209Hill Aspirant (248) Dec 22, 2016 Virginia

    That's my default practice these days.
     
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  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    In contrast I add all of my dry hops after active fermentation is complete.

    Different strokes for different folks.

    Cheers!
     
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  5. wasatchback

    wasatchback Pooh-Bah (1,574) Jan 12, 2014 Tajikistan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Skip the “biotransfomation” dry hop. That yeast will biotransform hop compounds but adding them during fermentation is IMHO a waste, especially if you’re down to you’re last bit. Add them after fermentation is complete to maximize the impact from the hops.
     
  6. thebriansmaude

    thebriansmaude Crusader (472) Dec 16, 2016 Canada (AB)
    Trader

    Agree with @wasatchback - If you had more hops I'd say maybe go for some active fermentation hopping, but you always get the most bang from the TG dry hop (esp in the keg).

    I'd say the bits you got make a fine DH charge!
     
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  7. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    Agree with the above Brewers. Skip bio an DH.
     
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  8. Curmudgeon

    Curmudgeon Savant (1,110) May 29, 2014 Massachusetts
    BA4LYFE Society

    Thanks for the replies you guys. I'll hit this batch up with the remaining hops for a healthy keg dry hop.

    I read Brulosophy's "old" xBeeriment on this the other night and out of the 28 people that sampled his beer with a biotransformation hop addition and beer with just a dry hop after fermentation, 11 of them were able to pick out the difference (which I guess wasn't statistically significant). Interesting too that the beer that he added biotransformation hops to had a lighter color and was a little more hazy than the simple dry hopped beer which was darker. I'm generally not a fan of darker colors in NEIPAs. Curious as to why his biotransformation version was so much lighter in color. Obviously best way to find out is to do my own experiment.

    Thanks again for the replies!
     
  9. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    28 tasters in a triangle test and 11 of them correctly identifying the different sample yields a "p-value" of 0.31. This means that if there was no actual difference, there was only a 31% chance that 11 or more would get it right.

    Brulosophy requires a p-value of less than 0.05. If that's not met, they report the standard...
    "...indicating participants in this xBmt were unable to reliably distinguish..."

    But ask yourself... assuming there was no difference, with only a 31% chance that 11 or more would get it right, and 11 did... does that indicate to you that there's no difference? Not to me it doesn't. A p=0.31 screams out for a second trial, IMO.

    It gets even more comical with p-values of, say, 0.06, where there was only a 6% chance that beers with no difference would have yielded the result (or a more extreme one than) they did, and the answer is still... "...indicating participants in this xBmt were unable to reliably distinguish..."

    IMO, Brulosophy cashes in on the desire of lazy brewers to have their shortcuts "validated."

    ETA: I don't mean to say that reading Brulosophy results is only for lazy brewers. If one understands what the numbers actually mean, they can definitely glean some useful information from some of the experiments.
     
  10. Curmudgeon

    Curmudgeon Savant (1,110) May 29, 2014 Massachusetts
    BA4LYFE Society

    @VikeMan - most certainly! Your points are valid and I appreciate it. I've always taken those xbeeriments with a grain of salt (Pliny the Elder reference?!). He puts way more effort than I do into trials and tests, etc. so I always like to read his stuff out of curiosity and think more about how I might brew. I'll try to remember this thread and post some pics when this brew is done. Thanks again guys!
     
  11. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    Yep, definatly not a brulosify fan here. Poorly written, and I'll say it, short cut crap that does not impress.

    I prefer it. Here.
     
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  12. riptorn

    riptorn Pooh-Bah (1,776) Apr 26, 2018 Georgia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    :+1: Preach it Brother Gorm.
     
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  13. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    Always, ripper.
     
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  14. Curmudgeon

    Curmudgeon Savant (1,110) May 29, 2014 Massachusetts
    BA4LYFE Society

    Well, here's the finished beer. That was a hefty dry hop and the two 300 micron mesh filters I used seemed to let out quite a bit of hop material. After about 10 days carbing/conditioning, I had a pint. Aroma was tropical but taste was bitter like chewing on a green plant. I decided to cold crash for about 4 days at 34F. It rounded out a bit and getting much less bitterness and more tropical pineapple up front with a white wine aftertaste. Was afraid the honey malt would make it darker than I'd like but it's giving off a nice orange now. I've depleted my Mosaic, Galaxy and Strata. Looking forward to trying some new hops next. I'm thinking a crisper Pale Ale next but tough to move away from these neipa types; the smells are just so good. Thanks again guys.

    [​IMG]
     
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