What processes do bottled conditioned beers undergo before priming?

any and all of the above, depending on the brewer and the style

 

Hopefully @SierraTerence will chime into this thread and discuss Sierra Nevada Pale Ale.

Cheers!

 

It seems to me that some of those processes might remove too much (or all) of the yeast for bottle conditioning to successfully occur unless more yeast is added as part of the conditioning process. That probably depends on the definition of 'fine' as you used it in a couple of those processes. But I'm going to let someone with more precise knowledge expand on that.

 

I agree

 

Every production process called for by a recipe, including those in OP, is done PRIOR to priming and bottle conditioning. The various types of drinking, including in plastic cups, glasses, steins, mugs, and snifters, are all done AFTER priming and bottle conditioning. Hope this helps.

 

If I was doing bottle conditioning for national or even just regional distribution, I would remove all the yeast and then add back in a specific amount of cells for more precise conditioning.

 

Well, it depends.

Style? Hoped for results? Brewery capabilities (packaging, employee capabilities, et al), luck?


It depends.

 

Okay... Sierra Nevada way. I will try to address the all the bullet points in the OP.

We only bottle condition a few of the original beers.

What beers do we bottle condition (~500,000 bbl annually)? Pale Ale (also cans the same way), Porter, Stout, Celebration Ale and Bigfoot Barleywine-style Ale.

Not mentioned above - All the above beers are cellared to 2.0-2.1 volume/volume CO2 level (think top end of a traditionally carbonated cask beer) and that is maintained through filtration and into bright beer tank. Target CO2 in packaged beer is 2.60 v/v. All beers are warehouse stored at 60-62F warehouse temperatures and allowed 10 days prior to CO2 and sensory tasting protocol. On average 90-95% of all this beer passes initial release (although, still green by consumer standards, but we know what will happen over the next 4 days before it's put on a truck and shipped)... Of the 10% brought back for sensory checks, it's usually slight diacetyl comments and the majority of those are during really cold days of winter when the bottles are cold going to line (bottles hold way more cold, than 12 oz. of 60F beer). This usually happens in Chico (not insulated and poorly temperature controlled compared to Mills River).

- lagering for the beer to fall bright
All these are ales.
- cold crashing for ales
At least 3+ days below 32F... More like 29F
- fining
Pale Ale has filter aids added. Proprietary blend of PPE and Silica Gel. Others are centrifuge only.
- centrifuging
All are centrifuged
- rough filtering
Pale Ale also sees course filtration for any filter aid that bypasses the filter.
- fine filtering
None
- sterile (fine) filtering
None

Post filtration/centrifuge - All beers are dosed with 1,000,000 cells/ml of fresh harvested viable yeast and fermentable sugar. Stored at 62F and recirculated during storage until packaging.

That should cover it...

 

This, and not necessarily the strain used for primary fermentation.
Plenty of Belgians switch it up and use yeast that flocs better for conditioning.
Which is why homebrewers should know what yeast they are bottle harvesting. The topic was discussed frequently not all that long ago in the homebrewing forums, here and elsewhere. We have about 10x the yeast availability than even 10 years ago so it's not such a big deal anymore but way back in the NCJOHB days yeast harvesting meant you were a serious homebrewer.

Cheers

 

Weedy, if you as a commercial brewer decided to add the bottle conditioning process to your production, what would be your motivation(s) here?

What is the cost for a commercial brewery to implement bottle conditioning? A little deal, medium deal, or a big deal?

Cheers!

 

If I was to get into bottle conditioning, my reasoning for it would be due to the oxygen scavenging ability of the yeast. I also do believe that the mouthfeel is different and the head retention is better in bottle conditioned beers, but that's a somewhat hotly debated topic with some people saying "carbonation is carbonation" no matter what the source of the carbonation is. I believe the bubbles feel finer in a bottle conditioned beer. Another plus would be ability to carbonate to a higher volume of co2 than what a canning or bottling line is capable of handling. For example, on my canning line I can't package above 2.7 volumes of co2 without excessive foaming and beer loss. It would be nice to get some beers up to 3.0 volumes or so.

As far as cost, it could be as little as a few hundred dollars or many thousands of dollars. If I added bottle conditioning in Tombstone, I would need a climate controlled area (I'd probably use a refrigerated shipping container that would cost $15k with all the electric work that needs to be added) and that would really be it. The downside would just be that I prefer to get beer to customers as fast as possible for maximum freshness, so that 1-2 week conditioning process could maybe be longer than I'd like to hold off on selling the beer. In Tombstone, our beers are naturally carbonated to about 2.1 volumes of co2 and depending on the beer, we just add carbonation to 2.4-2.7 volumes.

 

Did anything in the process change in the last 10 years for Pale Ale? I seem to remember back in 2009 or so when I had my first Pale Ale there was more sediment in the bottle than there is when I buy it now. It's long been one of my favorite beers, I just wish we had it distributed in my area in cans!

 

Weedy, do you know of any technical papers (e.g., Journal of the Institute of Brewing) which quantify this aspect?

Just to confirm, your issue here is optimizing freshness to the consumer and not delayed revenue?

Cheers!

@SierraTerence - do you know of any technical papers re: bottle conditioning & quantifying oxygen scavenging?

 

I don’t know of technical papers, but what Lallemand has taught is that the yeast will scavenge small amounts of oxygen.

Correct, cash flow should only be an issue in a poorly funded brewery that doesn’t manage cash flow well. For the types of beers I brew the most, I want them available ASAP after packaging. Our beers are normally on shelves at retailers within 24 hours of filling and some retailers pick up while we package to sell same day

 

Thanks so much for weighing in,
Best to you and the family
Cheers

 

Randy Thiel did some research when he was head brewer at Ommegang. I spoke to him about the benefits of bottle conditioning. Ommegang is a traditional Belgian style brewery and conditioned all of their beers, and I do think that is still true. Our discussion is probably going back all the way to '98 or maybe 2000. Back when you could show up at a brewery and strike up a conversation with an owner or a brewer.

Randy noted that the oxygen uptake at the conditioning phase is not really a thing; the damage, if any, is already done and irreversible. The bottle yeast could never begin to consume enough excess oxygen, if any, to make a difference. Which seems to make sense to me. So while there are some benefits real or imagined, according to Mr. Thiel bottle conditioning does not help clean up excess oxygen.
That is my recollection. I have a great deal of respect for Randy and what he was able to create at Ommegang. It is one of the criminally under rated breweries if ever there were one. Especially back in the early years.
Cheers

 

Better quality control in regards to lab and equipment.

 

My experience of trying to culture yeast from Belgian bottle-conditioned beers led me to believe many contain no live yeast.