Return of the Beer Review

Blog Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by Todd, Jul 1, 2020.

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  1. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    There were no ratings when we launched BeerAdvocate back in 1996. There were only text-based reviews by Jason and I. Ratings didn't appear until 2000, when we launched the ability for users to post reviews and required at least 250 characters. The idea was that while an aggregate rating can be very useful, we found that everyone valued what others had to say about the beers more. The instant consumer feedback became invaluable to the industry and, from an educational point of view, we discovered that the process of reviewing a beer was extremely beneficial to users. As a result, BeerAdvocate would become the benchmark for consumer beer reviews.

    Over the years we loosened things up to cater to those who just wanted to rate beers with no text (aka - tickers), which was made popular by Untappd. We played around with different versions of this and eventually settled on the approach that we all use today:
    • You have to at least rate all five attributes; look, smell, taste, feel, overall.
    • Providing a review is optional, but we don't consider it a review unless you provide at least 150 characters.
    In hindsight, I think this compromise was a mistake. Especially now that BeerAdvocate and Untappd are under the same parent company, because we're separate platforms that can complement each other vs. compete with each other. We wasted a lot of time chasing tickers, many of whom moved over to Untappd anyway, and while doing so we eroded some of our foundation and lost countless reviews by allowing people to simply tick.

    But it's not too late to make repairs. Here's what I'm thinking...
    • Provide some visual onboarding to help guide and encourage more users to get into reviewing beers.
    • Require at least 250 characters when reviewing a beer again. (Read: 150 chars would be considered.)
    • Allow users to review a beer more than once again. Some of you might remember being able to this ages ago and that we applied an aggregate by user rating to thwart abuse. I'd do things a bit differently, but I know that being able to review a beer more than once would be helpful to many.
    • Bring back the serving style field; bottle, can, draft, growler, nitro, cask, etc.
    • Past contributions that have less than 150 characters? I'm still thinking about how to apply them without getting rid of them.
    tl:dr: BeerAdvocate has been known for its beer reviews for 24 years. I think it's time that we reinforce this by bringing back the beer review. Not into reviewing beers? That's OK! We don't have to be everything for everyone.

    Thanks for reading.
     
  2. laketang

    laketang Grand Pooh-Bah (3,017) Mar 22, 2015 Arizona
    Pooh-Bah

    Reviewing a beer more than once sounds like a good idea for some.
     
  3. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    Users would once again be able to review different serving types, vintages, experiences with the beer, etc.
     
  4. laketang

    laketang Grand Pooh-Bah (3,017) Mar 22, 2015 Arizona
    Pooh-Bah

    I think vintages are what would interest me the most, thanks.
     
  5. JohnnyHopps

    JohnnyHopps Grand Pooh-Bah (3,380) Jun 15, 2010 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    BA reviews, for most, continues to be the gold standard on whether or not a beer is “good.” Taking it a step further, there are certain reviewer’s I look specifically for on beer reviews.

    That said I’m just not interested in someone’s ticks.
     
  6. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,041) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    You can do that already by simply editing your review though. Just put multiple headers into the same review. Seems much simpler and more compact that way *shrug*.
     
  7. donspublic

    donspublic Grand Pooh-Bah (3,552) Aug 4, 2014 Texas
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    hm, I used to be way better with reviews, but then started reviewing my behavior and found I was doing this when I was out with family and friends and didn't want to become that guy. So in those instances now I usually tick so I can have a reference next time I see that beer, think about buying that beer, etc. 20% of these usually end up becoming reviews after the fact. But I trust the general judgement of the community on this
     
  8. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    Sure, but it's a very messy solution that limits data and feature opportunities.
     
  9. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I have a few ticks in my list, mostly because I wanted to remember a beer, but didn't have the opportunity to take notes.

    Will they be removed? Do I need to revisit these ones and add reviews?
     
    Oh_Dark_Star and Bitterbill like this.
  10. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    Read:
     
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  11. Scottsbeer

    Scottsbeer Initiate (0) Nov 3, 2017 Florida
    In Memoriam Trader

    My personal opinion is that you will end up with a lot less useful data. There are many times when people just don't have the time to do a full review but the numerical input is useful.
     
  12. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    @Todd Read that, but wasn't sure it applied to "ticks" or short reviews -- but I guess zero characters is still less than 150. :wink:
     
    #12 steveh, Jul 1, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
  13. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I’m in favor of anything that helps to increase the number and quality of reviews. Numbers on their own mean very little and tell us next to nothing about the beer. I’m not a very good reviewer but I do type in some notes about every new beer I try—basically just my first impressions as well as any changes I notice as the beer warms a bit (particularly with big beers). If I’m in a situation where reviewing is awkward (social settings etc.) I generally just don’t bother, or try to just make mental notes to record later.
     
  14. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    No doubt, but then there's the whole quality vs. quantity debate.
    I'd argue that you don't need to review, or even tick, every beer.
     
  15. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Damn! Now you tell me! :wink:
     
  16. Sound_Explorer

    Sound_Explorer Grand Pooh-Bah (3,044) Dec 29, 2013 Washington
    Pooh-Bah

    I am a self proclaimed ticker, I know I know, don't hate me. I enjoy being able to rate a beer without always having to take 5 mins or so to verbalize each one, especially when out and about. Beers I find exceptional or unique or down right bad are ones I typically review, or if I'm on a review kick that day. I would think most of us here are fairly educated about beer and so their tick is still just as useful a data point as a 500 character review. I like being able to track what I have had over time, sometimes amaze (and worry) myself. Plus the OCD in me won't let me not count a beer so there is that.

    I think maybe a 200 character threshold might be a nice compromise for getting more serious reviews rather than 250. Sometimes I struggle getting to 150 on a beer as I am not the best at putting what I am experiencing to "paper". The vintage option is something I definitely am behind with.

    Just my two bits on the subject.
     
  17. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    You can always UT in the moment, and use the pic and notes to write a review here later.
     
  18. MNAle

    MNAle Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    Initial thoughts:

    I only contribute reviews, not ratings, and have done so for a number of years now. (In fact, I normally have the check box ticked to hide ratings when I am looking up a beer. Ratings are just not useful to me, since the mere fact that some person liked a beer, or didn't like a beer, contains no useful information by itself.)

    HOWEVER...

    That is not how I started, and I suspect a lot of people will (like me) not just jump into writing reviews. They (like I did) need some place to start their own evaluation abilities and confidence.

    Personally, I do not think Untapped will fill that role, since it is mostly for the tickers on social media, as you say, not those tasting the beer with purpose.
     
  19. MNAle

    MNAle Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    Oh, and I like the idea of being able to review a beer more than once.
     
  20. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    This could help:
     
    unlikelyspiderperson and Scrapss like this.
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