How do we grow BeerAdvocate internationally?

1. I use BA for checking the US beer scene, to keep me up-todate
I usually just read, so i might appear to be inactive.
2. Think you answered that yourself in your mail, BA is US-centric.
3. Is kind of a big question and i can only answer for myself
But if you ask me, you need to be more into what happends in the different countries.
I realize as well as anyone, that you cant cover the entire globe.

So my suggestion would be to affiliate yourself with people who is active in the countries you like to cover.

Cheers

 

1. If you solely use BA, but you're not overly active, why? - I use many other forums tbh. Both via sign ups, social media and via contacts. I have to be honest that I don't tend to read the majority of BA news
2. If you use other platforms over BA, why? - I prefer a wider context rather than an America-Centric one. I'm also sceptical that almost 100% of the beer reviews are rated so highly and are almost always US-based. I judge beer internationally, worked for a brewery and regularly taste beers that are far from outstanding. I judged a few weeks ago and some of the beers were faulted and even not within style parameters which is not unusual I'm afraid
3. How do we encourage more international sign ups and engagement? More internationally-focussed news which may mean relying on copy from overseas, more reviews from overseas, especially from emerging beer markets.

 

1. Traditionally I have used BA to for checking best Belgian beer brand, however I see that mostly the beers available in USA are reviewed
2. I could suggest that you probably provide some kind of community rewards system for international users who can provide more and more reviews etc on the local beer brands
3. Alternatively if possible you can organize beer fests in countries like India where it might be hugely popular and endorse your brand there

 

I'm spit-balling here.
How about offering incentives to non-US members who recruit new members from their home countries. Maybe start with Canada, offer free Society membership to those who recruit 10 new members. Maybe offer BA gear as prizes.

Cheers.

 

Hi Todd! Glad that BA is looking to become more active in this other side of the pond.

I guess that are two separate things to address on the first two questions, one being the depth of beer reviews and the other being the forum activity itself.

Regarding the beer reviews, the impact on user activity comes from how the platform itself is designed: it's very different to support by default a minimal review from a user (like Untappd) or to expect a descriptive text from a user (like BeerAdvocate or RateBeer). The former takes seconds and the latter needs more effort and input, but in the end is much more rewarding as someone who's trying to learn about beer.

To provide my example/answer: I've been an active user simultaneously for years of Untappd (since 2014) and BeerAdvocate (since 2012). On Untappd I track the beers I have while I'm having them. When I get back home, I try to come up with the best review possible from the new beers I have checked into on Untappd. Unless I'm having a beer alone, Untappd will always be the first platform I interact with.

Regarding the forum activity, I guess the that main problem is the difficulty for some beers and other beer related things to travel to the EU. I mean, the forum is filled of people talking about so many incredible beers that are already hard to get in the USA, let alone in Europe. And just to let you know, this isn't just applicable to your regular "whales" or limited edition beers. I'm a user of this brilliant website for a long time now and I have never had a single beer from 3Floyds, just to provide an example. So one ends up feeling left out with no ability to find a space to have a conversation with people alike (that have the same limitations in beer accessibility).

Craft beer is local by default and it's that characteristic that doesn't allow the forum to grow naturally out of the US. The conversations end up being too local and many europeans just feel left out (at least that's my opinion). I'm still interested in participating in the forum but I can easily understand someone who doesn't.

Hope that helps.

 

My humble opinion:

1- Because I feel my know-how of beer is somewhat limited compared to other reviews. Don't want to seem like a newb.
2- No mobile app, I don't want to open a website, find the beer and rate it using a web interface
3- Mobile app, much more detailed statistics about beer (per country, region, per year, etc), more pre-defined criteria, and maybe in the form of "dark colour -> light colour" where you don't put a value but your overall feel.

Also, most of the content doesn't match what the market offers here in Portugal, maybe create country-specific areas with "local advocates" to engage with the local scene.

 

1. If you solely use BA, but you're not overly active, why?
2. If you use other platforms over BA, why?
3. How do we encourage more international sign ups and engagement?

1. I use BA when I travel to another city or another country to know where I can have a good beer. I try to give feedback on the places I have visited. Unfortunatly because of helath problems I cannot drink any alcohol right know but I hope can again in a year.
2. No I don't
3. Well, that is not easy, I can't remember how I found BA, but maybe with some articles or advertisements in other beer magazines or forums

 

It's time to include beers which are brewed with sugars instead of malt or grains to make them gluten-zero e.g. sulzbachers.com

 

1. If you solely use BA, but you're not overly active, why? I only use BA as a guide when I travel to US and have the chance to try local options.
2. If you use other platforms over BA, why? I use Untappd because of the ease of having a mobile app.
3. How do we encourage more international sign ups and engagement? I think having options to see beers by country would encourage local use and reviews.

 

I moved back to the states but I'll still answer from when I lived in Ireland.

1. I was more active over there to help get some awareness about craft beer there.

2. The other platform I use now I use because it has a Map function and I can rate a brewery overall.

3. Id try to reach out to US Breweries who collaborate with international breweries to encourage their customers to rate that beer then hopefully it takes off from there.

 

I'm not the target audience here but do have some questions for people who have gone overseas and experienced beer culture in other locales. @Domingo @hopfenunmaltz, etc. I feel like. As Americans, we have this tendancy towards acting like something, in this instance beer, is a brand new invention that didnt exist prior to our involvement in it. We also have a tendancy to get deeply involved in these things for a short time, and then become quickly bored with the something we are into at the time. Over the course of my time here I would say I have seen so many participants in our forums come and go while exhibiting this frantic behavior. My question is this, is Beer Advocate merely US centric for these reasons? Do we not see international use rise because outside of the US beer drinkers do not need to define their lives through beer? It may be a cultural boundary that BA could never breach. Maybe I am crazy and this has nothing to do with the issues at hand.

 

The beer karma system gives you points and ranks you up as you contribute more to the site. If you want to see more local beer reviews or places you might have to be the one to create them. The more ratings and reviews you make the more beer karma points you will get and you will rank up in status on the site and move up from being an initiate. Another benefit is local people looking up beers that you've had or places you've been or are looking for some good ones will see your contributions.

We have local forums where you can see threads created from people in your region and participate in those or create a new thread if you'd like. The more participation the more you get from this site I've found.

some local forums if you haven't been: https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/forums/europe.20/
https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/craft-beer-in-southern-portugal.629851/
https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/lisbon-possibly-other-portugal-beer-spots.581506/ (closed)

You can look at the "Top Rated Beers" by country right now and a country's beer directory.
https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/top-rated/mx/
https://www.beeradvocate.com/place/directory/7/MX/

I was also thinking rewards might have something to do with it. Maybe people in other countries don't care about getting points for being on a website, but then again Untappd has the badge reward system that people seem to like. I'm not a fan of that though.

 

Hi Todd,

1. I'm like most users, I read a lot of the material and search beers or breweries often but I don't comment much at all. I don't use BA as the only platform mostly because it really lacks Canadian content.

2. I use Untapped a fair bit but it's lacking in some content also so it's great to have other options.

3. I'm not sure how to encourage more international sign ups but if there was a greater presence in other countries that would be a start. Maybe a rotating monthly feature on what's new in other countries could make for good info and reading?

Thanks for the opportunity to chime in.
Trev.

 

OK, a UK view.

Given the rapid change and fluidity in the beer industry, maintaining multiple sites doesn't help. If I need US info, I have to trawl Beer Advocate, BeerMe and Ratebeer plus plus and then try and make sense of what the current information is. Very few people are updating all the main sources and tend to stick with their favourite which means info is often out-of-date. Then add in multiple sites for each country, and the whole thing becomes unmanageable and unhelpful. Never was a "single source of truth" more needed. I know Ratebeer have local country editors but they are working against established operations in each country. Looking at BA/BM/RB entries for UK you get a very sketchy picture of the beer scene in the UK and I don't think there's anything you could do to improve this significantly as UK effort is put into a few specific sites such as Quaffale and CAMRA's Whatpub.

I guess the only "pan-national" database need is for beer scoring but, again, there are at least 3-4 competitors which, quite often, don't agree ;-) My impression is scoring is much more important in the US whereas in the UK we are more interested in accurate info on beers, breweries and bars.

Ideally everyone could agree a single definitive source within each country which would allow information and scare support resources to be focussed on maintaining an accurate and up-to-date resource.

However, I can't see this happening :-(

From my point of view, I need a resource that tells me about what brewers and beers are out there (and tip me off about fake brewers and brands) and tells me where I can get them. I tend to make my own mind up about the beer but, where there too much choice, scoring can point me in the right direction. But even finding the definitive resources for each country is difficult.

Not sure this ramble is going to help!

Cheers

Mark

 

I am not an international user but can make some educated guesses as to the low user percentages from outside of the US.

1. As a US based person I have no idea if there is a craft beer scene in other countries that I would associate with having some sort of beer culture (i.e. Germany, Belgium, UK, and maybe Canada?). Most of the imports I buy from the above countries are what I would call traditional beer styles from those countries and even then I have no real idea as to whether those are macro or craft businesses.
2. If there is a craft beer scene/culture in international companies, it's certainly not written/published/communicated on here.

If the goal is to get international users to care about craft beer and there isn't a craft beer presence then that's going to be really difficult to get people to come here to discuss craft beer. It'd be like asking people in Europe or South America why they aren't discussing the Ford F350 on fordf350forums.com

 

I think that's definitely part of it in some places. In the parts of Europe I've spent the most time, beer seems like it's more ingrained in the culture. People don't think about what's new and what's "the best," they just get what they like. They know what they enjoy vs. what they don't and that's as far as it goes. Most of the options are good and predictable, so they don't have to think about things. Because of that, there's minimal desire to put a score next to something or compare it to something else. More along the lines of "Augustiner is my favorite, but Hofbrau and Hacker-Pschorr are also good. I don't care for altbier." Or, "I like sweetened kriek and dubbels, but oude gueze is too tart for me." That's opposed to giving each one a numerical score and pitting their characteristics directly against one another. There is also less of of a bigger/better/faster/more mentality since their beer cultures aren't coming from ground zero like we did in the US. People order what they want rather than simply what's new.

That's VERY general and there are absolutely exceptions, but I think that it's cultural. American beer hit rock bottom in the 70's and 80's and rebounded thanks to a lot of boundary pushing and guts. Competitions and comparisons pushed things forward. Other markets might have had similar revivals and rebirths, but things aren't the same even if they look similar. Without going in circles, Stone Berlin comes to mind. Even when things look kinda similar...they aren't necessarily.

 

I'll echo this and add that my sense is that the European drinking experience is more about the people you're with, rather than what's actually being drunk. The beer is simply the facilitator of conversation at the gathering, rather than being the subject of that conversation.

There is of course a lot of local pride, too, and many people there are simply set in their ways. I was once at a pub in Vienna and asked some of the gentlemen I was sitting with about what they thought of their beer, to which one of them emphatically said, "Austrian beer is the best in the world!" While I'm not entirely sure of the truth of that statement, it does show that beer has close national or even regional ties.

 

Related to that, I've also heard similar statements in Germany. I can never tell if it's totally in jest, but I think there's some humor to it. In Bamberg, I told a guy that I was about to head back to Munich the next day. He warned me that "The beer in Munchen is terrible, - you shouldn't drink there." In Munich I've mentioned Rothaus and Jever and been told "Why would you drink those? The best beers are from here." In fact, ordering pilsner in general in that region will often get you a playful scolding. Mentioning American beer produces interesting reactions. A lot of people think of Miller and Bud and don't necessarily know much else. Others are aware of the major craft brands and generally seemed to approve...or at least not overtly disapprove. Not being from there, I don't totally get it. I think the regional pride sentiment is partially kidding, but with some truth behind it.

In Belgium (which I've spent FAR less time in), people seemed to be very aware of American beers and American beer tourism. A lot of that is based on where I went, though. Experiences in small towns probably differ greatly.

 

Its been mentioned in the talk around the "places" feature before but I think it could help cater to international folks as well, having local/regional "editors" or "experts" that could be tagged as such and maintain specific threads for the regions.

I imagine they could be pulled from active local users and asked to engage with new/occasional users to encourage engagement. Specifically in the international context they could host style tastings tailored to their area as a way to engage folks and induce new beer additions to the data base (which might also aquaint some folks with the ability to add to the data base)