New Beer Weekend #4

Discussion in 'The Bar' started by SawDog505, Aug 15, 2020.

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  1. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Next up, and my last new German beer of the weekend. And much like my 1st selection today was new to me, but hardly new, this one is from the supposed second oldest brewery in the world!

    [​IMG]
    Weltenburger Kloster Barock Dunkel

    Absolutely beautiful beer; I can't tell you how great it looks up close. The body and head together just give the impression of rich dark bread.

    I started drinking this one cold, and there was a slightly sour note up front that I didn't like. A quick glance at the reviews suggested I should definitely let this one warm up a bit, perhaps to around cellar temperature.

    That sour note does indeed fade, but never completely disappears. You can probably anticipate the majority of the flavor profile: caramel, dark bread, prune, pepper, toffee. Finishes with a lot of raisin character, and the aftertaste leaves a lingering impression of fruit bread.

    Not a bad beer by any stretch, but I'm not over the moon for it. I've been +rDev on 3 of 3 German beers this weekend, but this one will break that streak.

    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/1315/4920/?ba=Roguer#review
    3.80 / -3.8%

    Cheers!
     
  2. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader


    In general, I rate to style, which I think you can see in my two different pilsner reviews this weekend. I'm not just rating as to my personal enjoyment alone.

    However, where I put in that subjectivity is in the difference between Taste and Overall - especially in a case like you described, where the beer may not taste anything like the style, but may still taste good.

    I haven't had Marvelroast, but if I enjoyed the beer, even if it's not true to style, I'd rate the Taste over 3.0. I may not rate it as high as I would a beer that I enjoyed and was true to style, but I would rate it based on my personal enjoyment (kind of like @ovaltine described). Where I'd ding the beer is in the Overall category for, basically, not being what was advertised.

    I remember Stone's Spröcketbier, which was a black rye Kölsch - which is definitely not a thing in any way. I really enjoyed the beer, but I couldn't give it a 4.0 or higher in the Overall category because, again: not a thing. What an unholy abomination of a beer. Just do not call it a Kölsch, for the love of the Beer Gawds.

    In your case, it seems like Marvelroast didn't really even come across as a beer, and I think a rating below 3.0 is justified. But like Mr. O, I also wouldn't sweat it. :slight_smile:
     
  3. gopens44

    gopens44 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,560) Aug 9, 2010 Virginia
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I haven’t been on these threads since the days of NBS (which by my math has only been a month) but nonetheless it’s my first ever NBW post.

    Great Lakes - Lake Erie Monster

    [​IMG]


    3.73/5 rDev -7.4%
    look: 4 | smell: 3.5 | taste: 3.75 | feel: 4 | overall: 3.75

    Not to bad a looker, nice beige foamy head, lacing is there but not too cocky. Solid amber/orange body. Nose is confusing for a moment until sour, sweet malty and maybe a hint or sugary orange. Taste is s little less all over but not acres better. Little berry tart up front but an avalanche of sweet syrupy follows with solid bitterness on the finish. Almost no evidence of alcohol, so that is impressive given the high AVB. Just ok I reckon.
     
  4. HoppingMadMonk

    HoppingMadMonk Grand Pooh-Bah (5,208) Mar 3, 2017 New Jersey
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Founders marvelroast
    I think @ChicagoJ. And @highdesertdrinker already did a great job of reviewing this beer.
    It is all coffee,vanilla, and milk chocolate, not a lot in the beer category. This applies to the taste and aroma which were very similar to me.
    Its is very well done,flavorful and worth giving a try.[​IMG]
     
  5. cjgiant

    cjgiant Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,584) Jul 13, 2013 District of Columbia
    Society Pooh-Bah

    On a beer like this, I know I try to take the intent of the brewer into the equation - though I do have my on biases as to whether they should be even trying. Since styles aren't truly scientific, I sometimes ignore the style claimed. For instance, the beer you rated is maybe closer to a [Golden/Pale] Strong Ale than a [Imperial] Blonde Ale.

    That said, I try to hold brewer's accountable via my review - which I hope clears up any of the decisions I made in rating like those mentioned in the previous paragraph. To me, that's where some degree of advocacy comes in above just keeping a record for myself. Sure, my assessment is still the thoughts/opinions of a fairly random guy on the internet, but I hope to make it to as objective as I can - with words, not just numbers.

    And this is another debate - where should your personal opinion be reflected in the ratings? It obviously gets mixed up in all aspects, but it's not hard to provide an example where subjectivity can be off: someone who hates bananas rates a world class Hefe horribly because of the banana nose/taste simply because the "are not enjoying the experience."

    I wouldn't expect that person to give taste a 5 due to personal experience, but I wouldn't want them to give it a 1 just because they didn't like it. I'd hope they could say (in a review), "This has a large banana presences, and while I do not appreciate that in beers, I understand it can come with the style - it's just overpowering for my tastes, 3+."

    Based on the side of the argument I fall on, this person's overall category can then be a one, without any issue from me. If they just provided numbers (rating only), it would look odd to have a one mixed in with a bunch of 3+, but that's why some of us like to promote reviews :slight_smile:
     
    #125 cjgiant, Aug 16, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
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  6. bbtkd

    bbtkd Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,790) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Drekker Braaaaaaaains Double Fruit Smoothie Sour - Raspberry/Pomegranate/Plum, 7.8% ABV. Pours murky red with a two-finger pink head, with the puree leaving residue instead of lacing. Nose is raspberry and plum. Taste follows plus lactose, moderately sweet, slightly tart, light bitterness. Excellent thick and smooth mouthfeel, overall outstanding.

    4.25/5 rDev -3%
    look: 4.25 | smell: 4.25 | taste: 4.25 | feel: 4.25 | overall: 4.25

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  7. MNAle

    MNAle Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    On the odd occasion where I make a conscious distinction, I do the opposite.

    The L:A:T:F: are to style, and the O: is adjusted up if I really like the beer anyway. I point out when I do this in the review text.

    I can't remember going the opposite direction (that is, adjusting the O down because I dislike the beer, even though it is to-style...).
     
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  8. socon67

    socon67 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,895) Jun 18, 2010 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    Giving this a shot while watching Umbrella Academy on a rainy Sunday. I am mixed on this beer. The candi sugar and sea salt play a veritable tug of war with the taste and the result is a beer that honestly needs a bold food pairing to work.
    [​IMG]
     
  9. ovaltine

    ovaltine Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,787) Apr 6, 2010 Indiana
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I don’t like two foods, green peas and coconut. I’ve never tripped over a beer with green peas (thank the beer godz), but I LOVE coconut in stouts and porters.

    I also don’t like coffee (I’ve had less than 10 cups in my 57+ years), but I REALLY love coffee in beer.

    Finally, I can’t drink or even sniff from a bottle of bourbon or whiskey after an ..... explosively unfortunate incident when I was 15 (“projectile” anyone?), but I begin to actively salivate when I catch a whiff of a BBA stout or porter.

    No wonder I’m always flummoxed. Beer, the great equalizer.

    PS: this is from my review of Marvelroast. I still think this. It’s not very beer-like, but I enjoyed the shiznit out of drinking it.

    This is like Starbucks decided to make a chocolate caramel frappe latte (please note: I am NOT a coffee drink.er - maybe 10 cups in my life) and cram some alcohol in for beer nerds.
     
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  10. rgordon

    rgordon Pooh-Bah (2,701) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    I would just like to add St. Benedict"s
    ."
    And a microphone.
     
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  11. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader


    Same approach, just using a different attribute. Makes sense to me either way, and I, too, try to make sure that's captured in the review.

    I think the reason I do it the way I do is the subjectivity that @cjgiant mentioned. He used a real and rational example: someone who does not like bananas being overly critical of a Hefe. But I tend to look at more extreme conditions, albeit following the same logic, to demonstrate where an assumption has a flaw: what if a beer style inherently tastes, well, terrible? Not terrible just to my personal palate, but what would broadly be agreed upon as terrible. Say, a blend of sour milk, microwaved fish, burnt popcorn, and rotting meat.

    No, that's not a realistic example, but it's meant to prove a point. A beer brewed perfectly to that style would still taste absolutely horrifying to (hopefully) everyone. In that case, I wouldn't give it a 5.0 in Taste just because it's exactly what the brewer intended.

    Back in the world of more realistic examples, Taste is inherently subjective. So while I do take style into consideration when reviewing, I wouldn't expect CJ's hypothetical banana-hater to give a world-class Hefe a 5.0 in taste, either. How could he even know if it's perfectly executed, if he hates the flavor? I don't love Witbier, so I don't know how I could ever give one a 5.0 in Taste, because a Witbier will never taste perfect to me.

    Of course, that same argument extends to using Overall, as I do: if you can't recognize perfection in a style because you don't particularly like that style, can you ever really adjust your rating to style? And, well, probably not perfectly, no. It's an inexact science, and I think as long as we all acknowledge that - that we cannot be perfect reviews - it all balances out in the end.
     
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  12. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader


    Every single one of those series I have tried has been disappointingly thin and fizzy. Some have had pretty decent flavor, but they just fall flat. For an imperial stout named after pastry, I expect so much more body, and every time, they fail to deliver.
     
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  13. gopens44

    gopens44 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,560) Aug 9, 2010 Virginia
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Second up today is Lagunitas Super Cluster

    [​IMG]

    3.83/5 rDev -6.1%
    look: 4 | smell: 4 | taste: 3.75 | feel: 3.75 | overall: 3.75

    First thing that stands out for this one was the massive whiff of spicy fruitiness as soon as I cracked it open. Once i spent time with my nose in it I discovered further niceness in the shape of a light amount of garlic and plenty of floral bitterness. Taste goes downhill a bit as all the elements in the smell are there but watered down quite a bit in this very wet beer.
     
  14. woodchipper

    woodchipper Grand Pooh-Bah (3,735) Oct 25, 2005 Connecticut
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Well this is going to be a brief and unfair tasting. What you see in my glass is all that is left after an accidental spilling of the first full pour (before even smelling it). The stain you see on the label is not art, that is the burst of beer that came out on uncapping. Only been saving this beer for 3-months waiting for the weather to not be above 90F. Oh well.
    [​IMG]
    Poured at cellar temperature from a 1/2 liter bottle to a tulip. Bottle says "Brewed 11.20.19, bottled 04.2020".
    Nice tan head that stays 1/4" to the end. Darkness is under that.
    Aroma is literally like snifter of bourbon and water. That bourbon takes over all other aromas.
    The front of the taste is the same as the smell, however that fades gently to bitter chocolate then to rich black coffee. The finish is pretty much alcohol (ABV is 11.8).
    Mouthfeel is a little oily with some coating feel.
    I don't think its fair to give rating numbers with such a small taste.

    FYI - boy does this beer stain stuff when spilled. You could use it as a brown dye.
    On the bright side of the spill- I have some blood-alcohol budget left this afternoon for other beers.
     
  15. rgordon

    rgordon Pooh-Bah (2,701) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    This is Haw River's St. Benedicts Breakfast. It is herbal like a German digestif. Rich and black this lovely brew just smells of anisette and healing, leaving a notion of something more than a beer. This beer was very easy to drink and did make me feel better.This is like a fine tonic and soothing.
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Roy_Hobbs

    Roy_Hobbs Pooh-Bah (2,623) Jan 21, 2017 Connecticut
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Until a few weeks ago, I had been on an impressive (for me) streak of not buying new beer for several months. That was attributable partially to the amazing beer I've been sent through the last BIF, and partly through the recognition that I buy way more than I drink, and at some point, I need to balance that equation better. Anyway, what broke my resolve was when Fox Farm announced this beer last month. It is described as follows...

    "A rich Imperial Stout aged for 18 months in bourbon barrels before coffee was added- a special microlot of Bourbon Amarelo dubbed "Summer Solstice" by its producer Daterra of Cerrado, Brazil. The coffee was roasted hours before introduction to the beer by our friends and family at Ashlawn Farm Coffee of Old Saybrook, Connecticut."

    Review below, but let's just say this did not disappoint. I am loving this beer. Unless my target in the new BIF doesn't like coffee in their stouts, there is a high probability that one of these bad boys will be included in what I send. I'm glad I had the foresight to bring my wife so we could double up on these at 2 per person.

    [​IMG]
    4.7/5 rDev +3.5%
    look: 4.25 | smell: 4.75 | taste: 4.75 | feel: 4.5 | overall: 4.75

    Stored at normal fridge temp and poured after sitting out at room temperature for 30 minutes. Pours an attractive jet black with a little bit of fizz but no discernible head. You could take the brightest light you could find, place it behind this beer, and I don't think any light would get through. Aroma is wonderful, with roasted malts, notes of fig, coffee, and booze radiating out from the glass. On the tongue, this is rich, complex, and smooth. I find it to be very well balanced, with all kinds of notes coming through at various points of the taste journey. In addition to the coffee, I'm getting nice roasty flavor, an almost smokey / burnt note in the aftertaste, and some notes of dark fruit. Nice, smooth and creamy mouthfeel. Overall, this beer hides its 13.8% very well, and is absolutely fantastic.
     
  17. cjgiant

    cjgiant Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,584) Jul 13, 2013 District of Columbia
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I'll [re-]state what I think we've all more or less indicated - that 95% of the time, the overall is somewhere between the high and low of taste, smell, and feel (inclusive) - and probably 90% of the time it's between smell and taste - maybe even higher for beers that are pretty straightforward in style. It's the oddball beers (lots of adjuncts or flavorings or style-bending) that have the most chance for variance, and Marvelroast almost definitely fits the bill.

    Completely unrelated: f---in' Caps :slight_frown:
     
  18. ChicagoJ

    ChicagoJ Grand Pooh-Bah (5,247) Feb 2, 2015 Illinois
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Thank you all for taking the time to respond to my question. The only beers I've ever seen green @ovaltine are cheap AALs on St. Patrick's Day. Old Nation does brew great NEIPAs, among the few I actually like and seek, primarily because they are balanced and well executed, except of course for that green batch.

    This pour was just too sweet, and while it contained the texture of beer unlike that PBR Yoo-hoo "coffee" creation, that was the extent of the beer experience.

    This was the only rating where I had a problem assigning a rank. I believe the brewer liked what they created, and no doubt many in the taproom and here on BA like/love this pour, otherwise production and distribution would not have been expanded.

    That said, this was the only rating where I had a problem assigning a rank. I didn't enjoy it, far too sweet. That said, I try to be objective, especially if the taste is consistent with the style. Sometimes brewers go overboard with adjuncts, but I'm still able to find beer in there somewhere, just not as much as I like. In this instance, there was no beer there.

    Anyway, just wanted to respond, I still have 2 1/2 pages to work through though not sure if I will before the lock. I've been busy this weekend. Thanks!
     
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  19. Victory_Sabre1973

    Victory_Sabre1973 Grand Pooh-Bah (5,445) Sep 15, 2015 Minnesota
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

  20. beergoot

    beergoot Grand High Pooh-Bah (9,310) Oct 11, 2010 Colorado
    Mod Team BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Funky Buddha -- Morning Wood (courtesy of @DoctorZombies)...

    [​IMG]

    4.74/5 rDev +1.7%
    look: 4.5 | smell: 4.75 | taste: 4.75 | feel: 4.75 | overall: 4.75

    Jet black body topped with a thick and creamy, tan colored head. Alluring aroma of milk chocolate, cocoa and vanilla; faint, boozy scent. Decadently rich, sweet flavors; milk chocolate and maple syrup; vanilla; whiskey. Heavy, silky smooth body; velvety and chewy; dull, prominent sweetness to the mouthfeel; twinge of alcohol warmth.

    A heady, extremely tasteful and lip smacking bit of rich porter flavor. World class all the way...
    ----------
    When you start off your beer drinking day, there's nothing like starting with the best...
     
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