Controversial Beer Opinions (Round Two)

I can't say it's exactly controversial but ENOUGH WITH THE GODDAMN SABRO HOPS in clear ales and IPAs.
Stuff it in a Stout or Imperial Stout, stand back and see what happens.
Cheers.

 

Yes, I brewed at home for many years. A properly made beer would drop bright in a few days regardless of the quantity of hops I added.
It is not generally understood that Burton breweries didn't use findings because they found them unnecessary.

 

Whoops, mixed em up! clearly it’s been a while since I’ve homebrewed

 

"you can" is possible but as you alluded all the extra stuff floating around produces the "murk" which seems could be removed by filtering, my understanding is the "haze" is due to the protein complexes as jack states that can not be filtered out.

I really like a well brewed double NEIPA that looks like orange juice. Have not had any of the ones that are brown but maybe that is where the oxidation issue comes in ?

 

It seems like oxidation in a can shouldn't happen that quickly but someone who knows more about the topic than me can surely correct me. Anyway, I have had a few of those dark-orange brownish ones and they were great, both were from Equilibrium. The color was definitely a turn off but the beer was great and fresh. I assume that was just the final color of the beer for whatever reason. I really don't know anything about brewing although I am well versed in drinking.

 

Tight filtering will indeed filter out the protein-polyphenol complexes but for the juicy/Hazy IPA beer style the brewers (both commercial and homebrewers) choose to not filter these beers. I have never tasted a filtered Juicy/Hazy IPA but I strongly suspect there will be impacts to the sensory qualities of the beer (e.g., impacts to the mouthfeel, etc.).

You might be interested in reading (and seeing the photos) of this homebrewer’s Juicy/Hazy IPAs (one unfiltered and one filtered by a 1 micron filter):

https://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/9gkiwu/filtered_my_neipa_heres_what_i_found/

Cheers!

 

It basically comes down to the quality of the canning line as regards TPO (Total Packaged Oxygen). A high quality canning line will achieve a TPO on the order of 20-30 ppb (parts per billion). A lesser quality canning line with a TPO > 100 ppb will results in beers that will demonstrate oxidation more quickly.

Cheers!

 

I personally think they’re executed way better than any of the rest; from what I understand, the further they are from tasting like beer the better! The Answer and Burley Oak were just doing it better and earlier than anyone else, and in addition to doing them really well, they also brew some other really good styles of beer (not just Haze). It seems like a lot of breweries have relied exclusively on the success of these heavily fruited sours and have never proven they can even brew a good “real beer”.

 

good stuff, I guess if I’m ever down by those breweries I’ll give em a try. Definitely agree on your last point and feel like hazy ipa could be thrown right in there too. There are several local breweries around here that basically only make those two styles and nothing else. I wonder what happens when (if?) people start being less interested in those styles what these breweries will do.

 

Burley Oak seems to be experiencing a downturn in interest lately based on what I've seen in some of the facebook groups focusing on them. They used to be instant sellouts with lines that began the night before in pre-COVID times. Some really awful quality control as of late has made their JREAM trade stock plummet(exploding cans, oxidized beers, just plain bad beers). Their releases have now been rarely selling out the day of. I haven't been there or had any of their beers in 18 months, but when I visited the JREAMS were by far the best thing on the menu. Their ipa's, cream ales, and lagers were well below average in my opinion. I feel like a majority of their hoppy beers that I've tried have been a malty mess within a month of canning. Not trying to talk you out of a visit, but I might not go out of my way just for them.

 

The only brewers who don't brew only what customers want them to brew are home brewers. Customers drive completely the beers brewed by professional brewers.

Not sure if this is answer to your question, but it is certainly a truism that bears repeating on this site occasionally.

 

Customers are a wide category, there's lots of pro brewers that brew styles they personally like (or like to brew) even though they don't have wide appeal. And the truly great breweries drive customer perception and desire of/for certain styles. Not all brewers are just chasing trends

 

As someone who has sent several emails to several breweries for this exact reason the canned response is usually from someone who doesn't know, can't say, or something along the lines of "It's not something we're looking at at this time." Asking someone who's at the top decision making level is a rare chance to get a rather straight answer about something and more elusively, the reasoning or logistics behind such a decision.

 

All brewers chase profits. No commercial breweries brew beer and don't care if no one buys it, nor do they make beer without considering if there is a market for it.

 

A tiny local brewery (literally a one man operation) brews a dark "steam" style beer a few times a year. That beer stays on the board for a long time each time its brewed. I've talked with the brewer about it a bunch because I'm one of the very few customers that likes it. Its the brewers favorite beer. A more business minded person would definitely tell him to stop wasting time and space brewing a beer that few people buy

 

I tend to be in agreement with @unlikelyspiderperson on his post. My point was there are breweries that balance “chasing trends” with being true to themselves and then there are breweries that just chase trends. I think those more diversified breweries are in a better position than unnamed brewery that opened two years ago and brews nothing but hazy ipa and fruited sours.

 

He's sort of on the edge between home brewer and commercial? I wonder if he'd still make commercial size batches of it if nobody at all bought it? That sure would be the exception to my point you're trying to find.

I will offer that in a similar discussion some years back it was pointed out to me that there was a brewery that is a charity, and so it is an exception (in a way). I wonder if they still brew beer, can't remember their name.

 

People used to criticize The Alchemist when Heady was pretty much all they sold. I'll bet there were some people who thought maybe that was all he could brew. Funny how people would even think that considering that he brewed 35 styles of beer in the brew pub before it got destroyed by Irene, and he was/is great at all of them.

A brewery can't afford to come up with something that there is no indication will be a success/make a profit It's super expensive to build a brewery, the licensing and oversight of regulations is expensive and time consuming, it operates on a tight margin, there's lots of unseen costs, it's highly labor intensive. This all demands that if a brewery wants to stay in business they have to sell the beers they make. Consumers drive the business. When home brewers become commercial brewers they no longer brew without thinking "will this sell?" This is just how it is in every business, but perhaps especially for brewing for all the reasons above.

The difference between charging a brewery with chasing a trend or praising it for brewing authentic beer is only a factor of how much we like the style(s) that is trending.

 

He is definitely a commercial brewer, just a tiny one. And he definitely focuses on more niche styles, is not seeking mass appeal

If literally no one bought it I'd have to assume he wouldn't brew it. Another example is a much larger local brewery who brews a Belgian table beer occasionally. Before they first tapped it I happened to be sitting at the bar when the brewer came out to share a sample with the bartenders. I obviously asked him what it was and he explained and said something to the effect of, "I'm not sure if anyone will actually buy it but worst case scenario I'll drink the whole batch myself". That beer is still brewed but only a couple times a year, which leads me to believe its not super popular. They tend to have about 50-75% of their board in hoppy stuff at any one time.

Another larger example is Against the Grain. They brew all kinds of weird one offs and odd historical styles. Based on what I've seen for dates on some of these they barely sell at all and sit around a long time. In his AMA the guy from AtG said that the historic recipes are basically a pet project of one of the brewers.

My point is, in my experience its not at all uncommon for commercial breweries to produce beers that they don't expect to have a large audience. It's not at all unusual for commercial breweries to let a brewer brew a beer just because they love it. Obviously they have to make money and I don't know of any that brew exclusively beers no one likes (except Sam Adams, according to this board ) but most of the breweries that I've been familiar with have done/do odd ball, experimental, pet project type beers from time to time that they can't possibly imagine are going to be big money makers.

 

Yes, success is not necessarily a factor of how much you sell, or how much profit you make. Staying in business, though is a factor of how much you sell, and how much profit you make.

Not making a profit works for a short while, but a brewery with its doors open is one that tries to provide the beers their large, or small, customer base will buy. There literally is no other reason to open a brewery instead of just home brewing for yourself and your friends