Holding Proxies Accountable

One could use the feedback system and clearly state it was for a Proxy/Trustee Request.

Any proxy arrangement should be clearly stated agreed upon by both parties. No gray area. So it being “one sided” isn’t really something that should come up as that would be defined in the agreement. If it’s becoming, who did more, sent more, then it falls into more of a trade than a proxy setup.

It goes back to my first point, use the trade feedback system as a place of accountability. If seen feedback that mention it was a proxy arrangement.

Again, the arrangement should be clear and understood between both parties (responsibilities, bottles, shipping, etc.) almost like a normal trade. I don’t know why proxying would ever become one sided situation.

That said, seems like you have an actual situation you’ve encountered, but don’t want to call someone out for what you feel was a slight/one sided/lack of accountability situation. Please expand. The more details the better.

 

I’ve seen feedback, positive ones too, where no trade was even completed. So, figuring out a way to leave feedback in a proxy setup shouldn’t be too difficult to figure out.

If the feedback system isn’t a sufficient accountability holder for you then it has to simply fall on the individuals involved.

Lastly, if a proxy arrangement is evolving into more than picking up and shipping the beers then treat it as a trade. If there are great expectations of return for the proxy then call it a trade, but I think that’s the opposite of the original intent of the arrangement.

 

I had the situation occur on a side project release, entered into a trade agreement before the sale and I didn't land the bottles so the trade never went through but the other party was real cool about esp bc the sale was a moving target and I was watching it closer than him so I alerted him when the bottles were going on sale and he scored.

I know the concerns here, you end up sending over thank you beers and the other party is picking up your bottles so it could get real ugly which is why I would never ask for someone to proxy with under 10 trades.

 

My only issues I've had is being cheated with thank you beers, after proxy service. Not thru BA, but through other platforms. A few have done that to me. I'm reluctant to proxy now aways, takes time to do that. Then to be lied to, is discouraging.

I like idea one suggestion, was have the person ship his box with thank you beers first. But most think the proxy will cheat them of their beers. Though in reality, the guy buying the beers will cheat the proxy more often than the proxy will !

I've met some awesome people from proxying for others, so there's that. Not a total loss.

 

Interesting take and I agree, that sucks. I personally loathe the whole process of packing a box and dealing with shipping. Even if you are paying for the label the amount of work going into shipping just doesn't make it worth. I upfront told the guy what I'd be giving him so yeah for the most part if you arent getting $40+ in thank you beers that sucks.

Then again CA traders are chronically in a losing battle trading up so naturally we give more we give more in the extras game but just like that the "thank you" beers often are seen as extras.

 

That is why I look at proxying more of a favor than anything else. IMO the question is your goal; are you trying make back $4$ what your time is worth or are you just trying to help someone out. I imagine for most people it is a little bit of both. I think a lot of proxies do it because they simply want to share good beer with those who are unable to get it otherwise; there is a nice feeling that comes with that. If you are trying to $4$ it though I would try to work out exactly what the Thank You beers are going to be beforehand so you can decide if it is worth your time or not.

 

Yeah I'd agree with this. Didn't paint me in a good light. I was more agreeing with the guy above because as a CA trader we've historically traded $100+ of good BA beer to acquire Side Project Beers so naturally if we can find a proxy I would gladly throw good beer letting him know I appreciate his generosity in being a proxy, spending that time to collect and pack a box, and not tempting me with the thought of supporting the secondary market.

Unless you have some magical fast way you pack boxes, shipping beer has never been something I look forward to. That's half of the reason I'd expect to have worthwhile beers in a thank you box shipping to a proxy. If I find a proxy that is willing to ship $600+ beers on the secondary from Side Project I'd make damn sure that he's happy with a thank you box and willing to proxy future releases.

 

If the trade is "basic" and I'm just using a sort of "ordinary" packaging scenario, such as a flat rate medium or large flat rate box, I probably only spend about an hour to pack. If I am shipping something that either would give me a heart attack to replace, or I simply couldn't - and this trade means a lot to me (I guess these are all synonymous with each other) - I Pack like my life depends on it. I'll often peruse what boxes I have - what packaging material I have - kind of start to check out a few different scenarios by just "dry fitting" the contents to see what I think, and whether I like it or not. Ultimately, for these boxes, I probably spend upwards of 5 hours. I know that sounds crazy, but that's just me. It's got to be bomb proof. I want it to be able to fall out of the truck and have no issue. This usually involves reinforcing the walls, double boxing, etc.

The time it takes to actually go and SHIP the item is then another 30-60 minutes depending on the time of day, service used, and how unlucky I get at the store. I've been back in 20 minutes, and I've absolutely spent every bit of an hour.

Course, if I am proxying - which I have never done, but I alluded to this point in a separate post - I'd ask the person I am proxying for how they wanted it packed. I'll do whatever they want - but if they want me to use my materials (i.e. they don't ship me a thank you box first, and ask me to use that box), and they want it bomb proof, I'd certainly really appreciate a thank you box. Not saying I wouldn't do it, but for as much time as I spend, I'd really appreciate one. If this was an ongoing thing, I'd be fine getting a thank you box months and months down the road.

Thank you beers - for me - are less about reimbursement, and truly about saying "thank you". Psychology teaches us that if you offer to pay a friend, the friend receives less enjoyment from the activity you are paying them for than if you just gave them a "thank you" (verbal or in kind) afterward. When you make it a monetary situation, it becomes cold and more like a transaction than a favor. Some people want that, but it changes the dynamics.

 

I have (and I hope you have been as well). Trying to get around to shooting you a message, it's just been a bit brutal. I've been in WV for the last 3 weeks, which is why some of my messages seem delayed. Just been back for 1 or perhaps two days in a week. It'll be like this probably until the end of October. This was sort of an "in addition to," so I'm trying to do everything I was already doing in the office super remotely, but with essentially no cell service. Camping due to COVID, so no WIFI. Also in such a small town that the only real WIFI is at a SheetZ.

Also, if I know you, and I'm pretty sure I know who you're talking about, you'll be far too generous, and he'll be ridiculously thankful.

 

Not sure if you are looking for more input here, but I think you're over thinking this one a bit. Even if a proxy is "one sided" as defined above, feedback can still be left for that person indicating whether it was a positive experience or not (i.e. good communication, easy to work with, responsive to inquiries). If they show their arse for any number of reasons, and are deserving of it, you have the ability to leave neutral or negative feedback. That's how they can be held accountable.