I brewed a Ryewine with honey in February of this year 2/17/20 and it has some odd off flavors I need help pinpointing. Basic info: 1 Gallon batch, 48% Maris Otter, 39% Rye Malt 1.8% Carafa I, 10% Wildflower Honey at flameout. Fuggle and Cascade hops in the boil. 2 hour boil. OG 1.093, S-04 English ale to ferment at ambient temp (65ish) for 3 weeks. 1.013 before transferring to secondary with rye whiskey soaked oak spirals. Let it sit in secondary for 3 months before bottling at the end of June. Pitched fresh yeast at bottling, final abv 10.3%. It was a tad hot at bottling but had me excited. Really nice rye spiciness/maltiness, with a honey/whiskey finish. 10/23/20 After 5 months in the bottle, it has A LOT of shit going on I'm not pumped about. Light green apple, almost yeasty/trub/diacetyl aroma and flavor? It does not taste infected per se (so far no over carb/brett/acidity), but it definitely tastes like an off home-brew. Can anyone figure out where I went wrong? I was thinking maybe the abundance of rye? I've also never used US-04, my LHBS was out of my usual high gravity go-to (WY1028 London Ale). I still have 5-6 bottles so I'm going to crack one every other month or so to see how it goes, but even my younger imperial stouts/barleywines were drinking great this young. Any help would be appreciated!
Pretty much guarantee you it’s the S04. It can create some really weird flavors and aromas even above 64 in low gravity beers. At 65 ambient and that much food it had to have gotten over 72 which is no bueno.
No I bottled with S05. I’m hoping it’ll help clean up? But I would’ve figured 5 months in the bottle it’d be better off than it is.
Some people say that they get a bit of spicy/earthy apple-type flavor (think West English or northern French type cider) with large quantities of rye. I agree with the S-04 being the culprit, though. Luckily, it's a big beer and you can let it ride for a bit. Maybe in a couple of years the cumulative effects of aging and oxidation will override the off-flavors from yeast, provided it's cellared properly and everything goes as planned. You could end up wishing you'd have brewed a 5 gallon batch. Either way, you only have a few bottles to worry about, so chalk it up to a learning experience.
The last big stout I made with SO4 took almost 3 years to lose the intense green apple flavor. It was pretty good from 3-5 years and then began to fade. Had the last one, age 6, a few weeks ago. SO4 is no longer in my rotation; if I couldn't get anything else I would postpone the brew day.
The new Verdant IPA yeast from Lallemand is by far, hands down, the best dry English style yeast. Supposedly it’s some morphed 1318 of sorts. Much much much more forgiving at higher temps than S04.
I'm not going to disagree with others about the 04, it may very well be the culprit. I'm not a big fan. Even in my cider. But I will point out that with the amount of rye used, along with a generous helping of wildflower honey (aka heroin for yeast ) plus some oak spirals, soaked in rye whiskey no less... Yes there are multiple opportunities for this homebrew to cross the double yellow line. So maybe not too surprising. Let it ride I guess. Cheers
This is super difficult to decipher because the OP is describing a kitchen sink of off flavors. I do not like S-04* all that much for a yeasty sour dough note I sometimes get, and some of the flavors the OP describes could be that, I also struggle with how things seemed OK except for a little hot after 3 months in secondary and then all went to pieces in the bottle. Well, not exactly puzzled. This may have more to do with asking the yeast to carbonate a 10.3% beer more than it has to do with the quirky off flavor that S-04 sometimes throws.
It's definitely not the rye, and I don't think it's the S-04 either. I think you're experiencing a combination of ickiness from wildflower honey (which can be REALLY dreadful sometimes), and.... contamination. There, I said it. The combination of flavors you describe unfortunately sounds familiar to me -- green apple, diacetyl, yeast -- yeah, that's a wild yeast infection, in my experience. I hope not, I truly hope I am wrong, but don't be surprised if this brew only gets worse with age and not better. Good luck.
