Rating value and criteria for "Look" value

Talk Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by BillAfromSoCal, Oct 25, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. BillAfromSoCal

    BillAfromSoCal Pooh-Bah (2,415) Aug 24, 2020 California
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I'm trying to get better at this whole rating thing and I'm trying to do some benchmarking for how people are approaching ratings for "Look". I find there is not a lot of guidance in the BA "Beer styles" descriptions with regard to benchmarking "look", at least not for the styles I drink. So, if you pour a beer , and it ends up looking like your mental image of what you want to see from the style, is that a 5? Is it a 3 or 4 because it met your expectations? If it met your expectations based on your mental image, what would it take to exceed your expectations and get a 5? I mean, really, what constitutes a "5" if something that looks "right" yet gets less than a 5? I know there have been many posts about the rating system, but this whole topic of "look" gets me befuddled.
     
    ChicagoJ and officerbill like this.
  2. Jacobier10

    Jacobier10 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,102) Feb 23, 2004 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah

    Part of it is rating to style. For example, I would knock some points off a hefeweizen for having a small head on it, but would expect it from a barrel-aged stout. Part of it is simply how inviting the beer looks to me after it's poured. A couple of things I look for:

    How is the clarity? Is the beer hazy, cloudy, or murky when it should be bright?

    Does it form a nice head when poured? Does the head have good, persistent retention?
     
    hopsputin, ChicagoJ, Junior and 8 others like this.
  3. BillAfromSoCal

    BillAfromSoCal Pooh-Bah (2,415) Aug 24, 2020 California
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Exactly...but that is my problem....the BA style descriptions don't often have good descriptions of what the "look" SHOULD be. And in going through lots of ratings I rarely see a "5" for looks, so it somewhat begs the question...what warrants a "5"? I tend to be generous on my "looks" ratings. If it matches my mental image of what it should look like I give it a 5.
     
  4. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Grand Pooh-Bah (3,966) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Lots of us are very reticent to give any 5s for any number of reasons. Probably lots of beers deserve 5s so I'd say hand them out if you feel moved to do so
     
    MrOH, cyclonece09, sulldaddy and 6 others like this.
  5. bubseymour

    bubseymour Grand Pooh-Bah (4,800) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Aside from wild ales/lambics. A beer appearance only gets a 5 if it has a nice head and retention. Otherwise it’s 4.75 at highest potential on all other factors. That’s just my personal thing though.
     
  6. bubseymour

    bubseymour Grand Pooh-Bah (4,800) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    You may not have to like the taste, but a Guinness poured on tap at a pub is one of the most beautiful beer appearances on the planet. Especially nitro flow thru the body, and top it off with a bar back that can artistically make a shamrock in the head with the dribbles out of the tap.
     
  7. IKR

    IKR Maven (1,490) May 25, 2010 California
    Trader

    That's my preference too but additionally for me a stout/porter has to be black not dark brown and I'll ding for lack of clarity in a beer for styles that recognize haze as a fault.
     
  8. Jacobier10

    Jacobier10 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,102) Feb 23, 2004 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah

    For something to warrant a 5, to me it means it cannot be improved upon. Over time, as you try more and more styles, you'll learn the characteristics of each one. If you love the way the beer looks, and feel like there is nothing you would change to make it better, then by all means give it a 5. Don't overthink it, reviewing should be fun.

    Edit: Check out the BJCP Guidelines if you want a description of the typical appearance for each style.
     
    #8 Jacobier10, Oct 25, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
    sulldaddy, Rug, StoutElk_92 and 3 others like this.
  9. rgordon

    rgordon Pooh-Bah (2,701) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    This can all attempt to be too precise in determining a "standard look". Most of us really know what a beer "ought" to look like. In my opinion there possibly "ought" to be some leeway and not dyed in the wool thinking when judging by look. No head, too much stuff floating, clarity issues in lighter beers each contribute to a bad look. So, I like anthracite black dark ales with a fluffy head and drink on happily.
     
  10. LetsGoExploring

    LetsGoExploring Pooh-Bah (1,550) Apr 25, 2006 Connecticut
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Definitely reference the BJCP app.
     
    BillAfromSoCal likes this.
  11. zac16125

    zac16125 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,432) Jan 26, 2010 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Look is no different than any other category in that it’s multiple factorial. Color, clarity, head, retention, and lacing are all things I consider. Many brewing organizations have standards for how styles “should” look, particularly with things like the color and clarity.

    Granted, there is a huge component of subjectivity in ratings as a whole, and look is no different than any other category in that regard, but there are well defined parameters for beer styles that you can know and consider if you want your ratings to be more “accurate”.
     
    ChicagoJ and BillAfromSoCal like this.
  12. AElfwine_Nerevar

    AElfwine_Nerevar Savant (1,174) Nov 16, 2018 North Dakota
    Trader

    Do we even want to get into how the pour and glass can impact appearances?
     
    ChicagoJ, Junior, beer_beer and 3 others like this.
  13. BillAfromSoCal

    BillAfromSoCal Pooh-Bah (2,415) Aug 24, 2020 California
    Society Pooh-Bah

    so, what the inputs above have cleared up for me is that this site does not contain the info I need to make defensible inputs for "look" and that more info is available elsewhere. I can run with that. Thanks for the insights.
     
  14. BillAfromSoCal

    BillAfromSoCal Pooh-Bah (2,415) Aug 24, 2020 California
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Many thanks for the references to the BJCP....I wish I had that about 20+ beer ratings ago!
    For everyone else, see this link: https://www.bjcp.org/docs/2015_Guidelines_Beer.pdf
     
  15. beaulabauve

    beaulabauve Savant (1,109) Aug 5, 2011 Louisiana

    I usually rate the quality of the head. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think it’s related to the quality of the barley. I also grade to style on its color and clarity.
     
    ChicagoJ likes this.
  16. SierraNevallagash

    SierraNevallagash Initiate (0) Sep 23, 2018 Maine
    Trader

    Looks:

    [​IMG]
    4.25 Nice colour, good clarity, thin collar, uniform appearance, pretty, etc..

    [​IMG]
    4.5 Beautiful saturated colour that really conveys the theme of the ale (peach). Striking, glowing, catches your attention.

    [​IMG]
    4.75 (there's an extremely bright light shining so I could capture the translucency of the ale on camera)

    Vivid, brilliant, eye-catching. Bold colour that looks like no beer I can remember pouring. When you can describe the appearance with precious gemstones. Standout.

    [​IMG]
    5/5

    You'll know a 5 when you see it (this is my only one to-date). When it just makes you laugh. When you have to text your buddy a photo and say, "DUDE! Look at that colour!" and your buddy responds, "DUDE! That's insane!".

    In all honesty, something has to look just ruddy and off for me to hit it with less than 3.5. If it looks like a good, average example of the style, I usually give it a 4. If head retention, visible effervescence, lacing, and vivid colour come into play, I'm probably looking at 4.25 to 4.5 depending on how impressive it is. For me, 4.5 and up is for something that really stands out as impressive. Most beers for me stay in that 4-4.25 range for looks. It's all so subjective, and is the least important factor when it comes to enjoying the taste of the beer, which is why appearance score makes up such a small percentage of overall score. I'd rate accordingly to whatever feels right to you.
     
  17. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Outstanding pics! They make me want those beers to drink. Are you a professional photographer?
     
    SierraNevallagash and Rug like this.
  18. msscott1973

    msscott1973 Pooh-Bah (1,739) Dec 28, 2013 North Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    All of my ratings skew slightly high because I don't care about appearance, so I rate every beer a 5 in the looks category.
     
  19. nc41

    nc41 Initiate (0) Sep 25, 2008 North Carolina
    Trader

    There was a pic I saw yesterday of A beautiful glass of Celebration, that’s what a 5 looks like in the glass. Ratings are tough for me so I might give overall impressions like just a bottom line like it’s a 4.25 kinda beer, it’s all encompassing. I tend to be more neutral on looks and nose, but that Celebration was perfect.
     
  20. SierraNevallagash

    SierraNevallagash Initiate (0) Sep 23, 2018 Maine
    Trader

    Thank you! I don't have the credentials to call myself a professional. I am a passionate photographer who just likes to capture little moments of time. And beer. Moments and beer.


    Beer moments.
     
    officerbill, Rug and PapaGoose03 like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.