What beer started the turbid/cloudy IPA trend?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by thebeers, Oct 27, 2020.

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What beer deserves credit for staring the turbid/cloudy IPA trend?

  1. Treehouse Julius

    27 vote(s)
    9.9%

  2. Trillium Congress Street

    8 vote(s)
    2.9%

  3. Tired Hands HopHands

    6 vote(s)
    2.2%

  4. Hill Farmstead Edward

    7 vote(s)
    2.6%

  5. The Alchemist Heady Topper

    214 vote(s)
    78.1%

  6. Other

    12 vote(s)
    4.4%
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  1. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    The best info I have found puts Alpine Nelson being brewed for the first time in 2004.
     
    #41 SFACRKnight, Oct 28, 2020
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  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Yup, Heady Topper is not a murky, turbid beer and therefore not a NEIPA. But lots of folks know the name of Heady Topper and ergo they vote for it.

    It should not have been a choice in this poll but...

    Cheers!
     
    #42 JackHorzempa, Oct 28, 2020
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  3. thebeers

    thebeers Grand Pooh-Bah (5,837) Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Even though Heady Topper is definitely not cloudy (and promotes drinking from the can for Pete’s sake!), I do think there’s an argument to be made that it best popularized non-clear IPAs among beer nerds and thus deserves credit for the cloudy, turbid beers that followed.

    I’m nonetheless surprised at just how many people are giving it credit, rather than an actual producer of cloudy beers, and think it mainly comes down to lack of agreement on where the line is between subjective terms like “murky,” “hazy,” “cloudy,” “turbid” and so on. A lot of BAs seem to use the terms interchangeably.

    The OP really should have included a picture of a cloudy, turbid beer to illustrate what he was getting at. :wink:

    FWIW, my current guess is that Hill Farmstead brewed the first — and that Tired Hands and Treehouse were very close behind. Maybe @jesskidden actually knows?
     
    #43 thebeers, Oct 28, 2020
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  4. russpowell

    russpowell Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,292) May 24, 2005 Arkansas
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Heady, trust me there was a long period of time I was not doing a damn thing & this was the torch bearer. If any of them other beers were released, they were drowned out by the hype that was justified by Heady
     
    #44 russpowell, Oct 28, 2020
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  5. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Whoever it was deserves to be slapped upside the head. With a chair.
     
    #45 BBThunderbolt, Oct 28, 2020
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  6. jonphisher

    jonphisher Grand Pooh-Bah (3,850) Aug 9, 2015 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    This is exactly how I feel as well. I guess the argument seems seem to be that heady topper made it ok/started the over hopped trend. But that to me does not equate to they also started the NEIPA trend. What if we say heady was the spark?

    Heady topper is not an NEIPA IMO it still retains American ipa qualities, NEIPAs for the most part do not have as many. That’s why I can’t vote for heady topper.
     
    #46 jonphisher, Oct 28, 2020
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  7. Marksniat

    Marksniat Initiate (0) Jul 26, 2020 Vermont

    which one has been around longer?
     
    #47 Marksniat, Oct 28, 2020
  8. AMessenger

    AMessenger Aspirant (269) Mar 17, 2018 Pennsylvania

    It’s murky enough (has always been noteworthy for its appearance compared with other IPA). Really it is the flavoring and aroma hops that make the style much more than appearance but how to quantify that - you know it when you taste it.

    To quote Thor, “all words are made up”. Seems like the collective understanding of NEIPA considers Heady to be an important representative of the “style”
     
    #48 AMessenger, Oct 28, 2020
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  9. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,157) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    In Memoriam Pooh-Bah Trader

    It may not be the topic, and in fact OP says it isn't what he is talking about, but it is worth noting that for most of the thousands of years beer has been around ALL beer likely was cloudy and no one noticed or cared due to drinking vessels were opaque.

    At the first Indianapolis Speedway the race cars averaged 75 MPH. It was still a car race and they were still racing cars even though they go so slow compared to today. Heady is the prototype of the style, and is a NEIPA in that same way.
     
    #49 cavedave, Oct 28, 2020
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  10. TheIPAHunter

    TheIPAHunter Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,026) Aug 12, 2007 California
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    The answer is Heady, but let's not forget that Alpine Nelson was hazy before hazy ever became every day terminology. Peace...
     
    #50 TheIPAHunter, Oct 28, 2020
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  11. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Except alpine was brewing a hazy juicy IPA before any of them.

    Preach
     
    #51 SFACRKnight, Oct 28, 2020
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  12. thebeers

    thebeers Grand Pooh-Bah (5,837) Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Who would you credit for moving “the look” beyond the haze of Heady and Alpine to the thicc, cloudy, turbid beauty of Julius, Congress Street, Alien Church, Susan, King Sue, etc.?

    Haziness
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Cloudiness

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    #52 thebeers, Oct 28, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
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  13. KingforaDay

    KingforaDay Pooh-Bah (2,445) Aug 5, 2010 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I believe this is correct. Nate at Treehouse has even joked he started the Brewery because he got tired of driving up to VT all the time to bring back HF growlers.
     
    #53 KingforaDay, Oct 28, 2020
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  14. Celtics76

    Celtics76 Pooh-Bah (1,781) Sep 5, 2011 Rhode Island
    Pooh-Bah

    Heady Topper (and Focal Banger for that matter) are not NEIPAs. I would not classify them as turbid either. I've had both recently, can't compare to Congress St, Julius, etc. Class of their own.
     
    #54 Celtics76, Oct 28, 2020
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  15. thebeers

    thebeers Grand Pooh-Bah (5,837) Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Among that “turbid look” class, who do you credit for being first and/or most popularizing it?
     
    #55 thebeers, Oct 28, 2020
  16. jonphisher

    jonphisher Grand Pooh-Bah (3,850) Aug 9, 2015 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    this is why I still can’t get behind heady topper. If you poured a bunch of hazy NEIPA in opaque glasses and included heady topper it would stick out like a sore thumb. It’s dry, piney, bitter, grapefruit and resiny. It doesn’t resemble what NEIPA has become.

    Did it give people the idea to push hops farther that what was normal? Based on what many have said, yes. But that to me still does not equate being the ones to blame for the fad of bitterless, fruity, creamy, soft ipas. I’ll say it again heady topper is none of those things.

    This has been a fun discussion and it has been enjoyable to read all the stuff people are saying.
     
    #56 jonphisher, Oct 28, 2020
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  17. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,242) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Society Pooh-Bah

    So there's two questions here...

    1) This is the one I think the OP was asking. What started the trend of hazy hoppy beers? The answer is Heady for my money.

    2) What was the first New England IPA? I agree, Heady is not a New England IPA. This answer would be Hill Farmstead, Trillium, or Tree House. Not really sure who was first there though.

    Heady Topper, easily. First brewed in 2003.

    Except as you noted, Nelson was first brewed in 2004. Heady was first brewed in 2003.

    And also, Nelson wasn't influencing anyone. It's not a coincidence the New England IPA originated and exploded in New England with Trillium and Tree House.

    Moreover, there's a HUGE gap between 2003/2004 and when the New England IPA exploded. It was likely in 2011 when Heady was first canned and more people had access to it that started this trend. Before this you could only drink it at the brewpub.

    This is a tough one to determine. When did Hill Farmstead start brewing turbid IPAs? Beers like Edward and Susan in my opinion aren't like that. Beers like Double Citra, Double Galaxy, Double Nelson...absolutely.

    I also think other than this style being popular, what really jump started this craze was CANS. This made it much easier for breweries to crank out beer to-go instead of growlers like Hill Farmstead was doing.

    I don't think it's a coincidence that Heady was around for 8 years before more people who weren't local knew about it. In 2011 that's the clear line to me...think about it...

    Tree House: Established 2011

    Trillium: Established 2013
     
    #57 AlcahueteJ, Oct 28, 2020
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  18. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,242) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I found this on this website regarding dates and Hill Farmstead beers...

    https://tenemu.com/reviews/hill-farmstead-everett/11/2014

    Others in the series include:

    • Abner Double Pale Ale — 8 percent ABV — May 2010
    • Edward Pale Ale — 5.2 percent ABV — May 2010
    • Ephraim Imperial Pale Ale — 9.6 percent ABV — October 2010
    • Harlan IPA — 6 percent ABV — July 2010
    • Susan IPA — 6.2 percent ABV — November 2012
     
    #58 AlcahueteJ, Oct 28, 2020
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  19. Siriusfisherman

    Siriusfisherman Maven (1,348) Aug 23, 2011 New Hampshire
    Trader

    Back when the Haze craze started it was really Hazy. Sometime between 2014 ( the last time I had it before this year) and now it lost a lot of haze.
     
    #59 Siriusfisherman, Oct 28, 2020
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  20. thebeers

    thebeers Grand Pooh-Bah (5,837) Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    To complicate things further, there was (is?) a lack of consistency in NEIPAs that I believe was especially true in their early days. Consider the look of Abner here...

    [​IMG]

    Versus here...

    [​IMG]
     
    #60 thebeers, Oct 28, 2020
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