What beer started the turbid/cloudy IPA trend?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by thebeers, Oct 27, 2020.

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What beer deserves credit for staring the turbid/cloudy IPA trend?

  1. Treehouse Julius

    27 vote(s)
    9.9%

  2. Trillium Congress Street

    8 vote(s)
    2.9%

  3. Tired Hands HopHands

    6 vote(s)
    2.2%

  4. Hill Farmstead Edward

    7 vote(s)
    2.6%

  5. The Alchemist Heady Topper

    214 vote(s)
    78.1%

  6. Other

    12 vote(s)
    4.4%
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  1. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Much like the genesis of the NE IPA as a style, I think it depends on where you want to draw the line.

    I see Heady Topper as incredibly influential for both, but Tired Hands, Tree House, and Trillium definitely took things to the next level. With murk bombs becoming popular in every state, they tend to bear far less visual (or taste) resemblance to Heady, and far more with those big T(hr)ee.

    So I'd give the nod to Heady, for giving the initial push and getting things started, but if someone wants to draw the line at a true haze bomb, Tired Hands seems to be a pretty good answer.
     
    #81 Roguer, Oct 28, 2020
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  2. mrmattosgood

    mrmattosgood Maven (1,301) Nov 6, 2010 Canada (BC)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Neither the best shot, but certainly hope it helps.
     
    #82 mrmattosgood, Oct 28, 2020
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  3. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    People have mentioned that TG beers were not hazy initially either and only trended that way during the haze hype a few years back.
     
    #83 SFACRKnight, Oct 28, 2020
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  4. Sheppard

    Sheppard Grand Pooh-Bah (3,516) Mar 16, 2013 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Yes, I am very aware of these comments, but I was going off what was said on those early 2011 reviews. It's clear we've seen a shift towards hazier and murkier with PS since then but even your picture is at least a little hazy.
     
    #84 Sheppard, Oct 28, 2020
  5. TheOneTC

    TheOneTC Pundit (754) Aug 23, 2013 Massachusetts
    Trader

    Granted, early Julius was definitely not as cloudy or vibrant as it is today. But you're saying that you wouldn't call the beers in those photos "hazy"?
     
    #85 TheOneTC, Oct 28, 2020
  6. chipawayboy

    chipawayboy Pooh-Bah (2,181) Oct 26, 2007 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    #86 chipawayboy, Oct 28, 2020
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  7. mrmattosgood

    mrmattosgood Maven (1,301) Nov 6, 2010 Canada (BC)

    I would 100% claim that -- at least in the picture by the fire -- that I could see my hand through that beer. The lighting is weird on the second one, but those were the only two I could find.
     
    #87 mrmattosgood, Oct 28, 2020
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  8. Thankin_Hank

    Thankin_Hank Grand Pooh-Bah (4,024) Nov 18, 2013 Texas
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    #88 Thankin_Hank, Oct 28, 2020
  9. thebeers

    thebeers Grand Pooh-Bah (5,837) Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Now that’s an interesting story!

    In trying to piece together a forensic timeline of these truly “opaque” (well beyond “hazy”) beers, still not sure what to make of the fact that Jason Alstrom rated Congress Street a 4.45 overall in October 2013 only to be so offended by the “milkshake” appearance of HopHands on tap thirteen months later.
     
    #89 thebeers, Oct 28, 2020
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  10. slander

    slander Pooh-Bah (2,568) Nov 5, 2001 New York
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    I will not blame this shit of a mess on Heady.
     
    #90 slander, Oct 28, 2020
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  11. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader


    I felt much the same when people kept mentioning Edward (or, in a totally different region, Toppling Goliath). I never considered Edward super hazy - and while TG has always made some hazy beers, I (and others) feel the modern murky look is a relatively recent thing with them.

    Circling back to your comments on Heady, I agree, it's not a turbid beer - but to circle back on my comments, it depends on where you draw the line. Heady was never as pulpy and opaque as, say, Trillium or Tree House (which were unlike almost anything ever seen before), but it really opened the door for them.

    I'm with @AlcahueteJ when I credit Heady with knocking down that door. Not many other beers, certainly not many IPAs, were as hazy at the time; Kimmich seemed almost embarrassed by it. Much like it's not really a NE IPA (it's quite bitter, for starters), it nonetheless opened the door for the style (I credit The Alchemist and Hill Farmstead simultaneously for pioneering the soft, fluffy mouthfeel of the style, which set them apart from other world-class IIPAs at the time, even others in the NE area like Gandhi Bot, and certainly from their West Coast contemporaries). If you're going to loosely define NE IPA by its soft mouthfeel, you can't ignore Heady and Hill Farmstead for setting that as the standard.

    Was Heady the first turbid IPA? Definitely not, because it wasn't turbid - not by the murky, pulpy standards that followed. But can you draw a clear line from Heady to what almost immediately followed? I think that's a fair logical leap. The first truly turbid beer in that style was probably Hop Hands; I think Tree House and Trillium actually did even more to popularize it.
     
    #91 Roguer, Oct 28, 2020
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  12. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Woo-Hoo! Something we both agree on!!
    Woo-Hoo again! Once more we agree!!
    The question in the OP was: “What single brew deserves the most credit for starting the turbid, cloudy IPA trend?”

    If a person (you?) were to argue that a beer that was “knocking down the door” equates to “starting” then a certain answer can be achieved. But utilizing a beer that is not turbid as being a “start” is not something I agree with. I am of the opinion that a turbid beer should be the start. FWIW I voted for HopHands in the poll.

    Cheers!

    P.S. Two out of three ain't bad!:slight_smile:
     
    #92 JackHorzempa, Oct 28, 2020
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  13. Thankin_Hank

    Thankin_Hank Grand Pooh-Bah (4,024) Nov 18, 2013 Texas
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    I wish I could try all those beers so I went with Turning Point.
     
    #93 Thankin_Hank, Oct 28, 2020
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  14. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader


    Not to play too heavily in semantics, "started" and "was the first" could be considered different. Did Hop Hands inspire Tree House and Trillium to go equally turbid (possibly even more)? Or did Heady?

    If Heady had more widespread impact on establishing the look, then it may not have been the "first" exactly, but may be more responsible. May. Hence my vote, but not necessarily conviction. :wink:

    I think if the question were, "What beer was the first turbid IPA that kicked off this whole craze?" then Hop Hands is probably a really, really solid contender - and Heady is not.

    As usual, we agree more than we disagree, and part mostly on finer details. I can live with that. :slight_smile:

    Cheers, Jack! :slight_smile:
     
    #94 Roguer, Oct 28, 2020
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  15. thebeers

    thebeers Grand Pooh-Bah (5,837) Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    #95 thebeers, Oct 28, 2020
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  16. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,242) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Probably not the case, but couldn’t a careful pour/decant cause the former picture to be less turbid?

    I almost went back to quote the OP exactly but didn’t have the time.

    But even if we go with what the OP said exactly, my answer still stands. It’s Heady.

    But I’m also not saying you’re wrong, I think we’ve established it’s all in how you interpret the question. As you and @Roguer ’s back and forth has shown.

    I think we should all just agree to disagree at this point and enjoy all of these beers!

    This is why I voted Heady. Canning this beer in 2011, albeit it being in short supply, was HUGE. People could easily take the beers home and consume them whenever (within reasonable time, not like 6 months), unlike with a growler.

    Nelson was cloudier and hazier than Heady in 2004?

    When was Hop Hands first brewed?


    Overall I think the Trillium Congress Street story is interesting. It very well could be that in 2013 when Trillium started brewing IPAs they were the first to have truly turbid and juicy IPAs. And that breweries that were already around like Toppling Goliath, Hill Farmstead, Tired Hands, and Tree House took their hazy beers and amped them up to another level to equal Trillium.

    Heck, Bissell admittedly changed Substance from what it was in 2013 (I think the first year they were a brewery, I believe I visited them that year too). And now it’s far more turbid and more in the “New England” style.
     
    #96 AlcahueteJ, Oct 29, 2020
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  17. PA-Michigander

    PA-Michigander Grand Pooh-Bah (3,372) Nov 10, 2013 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    [​IMG]

    This is TG PseudoSue from 2014. It was amazing. The smell and taste was bar none one of the best APA I had, and still have ever had, but it sure wasn't hazy/murky/etc.
     
    #97 PA-Michigander, Oct 29, 2020
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  18. spersichilli

    spersichilli Initiate (0) Apr 26, 2018 California
    Trader

    It's Heady for the original popular "hazy" beer, but the modern NEIPAs it's Tree House
     
    #98 spersichilli, Oct 29, 2020
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  19. thebeers

    thebeers Grand Pooh-Bah (5,837) Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    FWIW, my review of Alpine Nelson from 2015 calls it “exceptionally clear.”

    People have said that early Hill Farmstead, Tired Hands and Treehouse may have been hazy, but were not as cloudy, turbid and opaque as they are today. It sounds like Congress Street was turbid straight out of the gate in 2013. Maybe?
     
    #99 thebeers, Oct 29, 2020
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  20. sulldaddy

    sulldaddy Grand Pooh-Bah (5,786) Apr 6, 2003 Connecticut
    Mod Team BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    That second photo with extensive white floaties reminds me of what I recall Heady looking like when I broke the "rule" about drinking from a can and poured into a glass.
    I love these evolution of NEIPA discussion and photo sharing.
     
    #100 sulldaddy, Oct 29, 2020
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