Does cellaring beers actually improve it?

Discussion in 'Cellaring / Aging Beer' started by Troy-Hawaii, Nov 12, 2020.

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  1. Troy-Hawaii

    Troy-Hawaii Pooh-Bah (1,985) Jun 15, 2015 Hawaii
    Pooh-Bah

    Hello fellow beer drinkers,

    I haven’t tried aging beers so I would like to hear what people have to say about it. People talk a lot about fresh beer and I for one like my beer fresh so I always look at bottle dates.

    There’s also a lot of discussions about cellaring a beer. I understand that higher ABV beers have a longer shelf life, but was wondering if those beers actually improve with age or is it just a dulling of flavors to give the impression of being smoother. I’m not talking about barrel aging as I do like those and know how the barrel imparts flavors, but I am talking about canned or bottled beers at home.

    I am wondering if aging bottled beers is just giving you a flatter flavor profile. Sort of like with spices for cooking. When they’re fresh the flavors are more intense, which is what you want. After sitting around for a while they lose their flavor so its time to dump them and buy new ones. That is why I am wondering if aging high ABV beers actually are worsening them rather than improving them.
     
  2. 57md

    57md Grand Pooh-Bah (3,033) Aug 22, 2011 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I think that some high abv beers have uneven flavor profiles or are dominated by a heavy fusel alcohol taste. Aging those type of beers tends to mellow them out and bring out more subtle underneath flavors that get lost when the beer is young.

    Theoretically, the higher the abv, the more conducive a beer is to aging.

    I tend to enjoy heavy malt-forward beers when they are aged. I like to experiment with double-digit abv baltic porters, barleywines and stouts for the most part.

    Some people like aging high abv beers with strong hop profiles; that's not really for me as I always seem to get turned off by the stale hop essence.
     
    #2 57md, Nov 12, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2020
  3. dennisthreeninefiveone

    dennisthreeninefiveone Pundit (980) Aug 11, 2020 New Jersey
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    Beer changes as it is aged. Weather it improves is a matter of opinion.
     
  4. DIM

    DIM Grand Pooh-Bah (4,788) Sep 28, 2006 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Rarely in my experience. Excessively hoppy, high octane stouts and barleywines can improve with age in my opinion. Bigfoot for example gets dramatically better from 4-10 years out.

    Most of my cellaring experiences yielded minor, lateral moves in flavor over the first two years or so and a drop off after that.
     
    #4 DIM, Nov 12, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2020
  5. maximum12

    maximum12 Grand Pooh-Bah (4,686) Jan 21, 2008 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    To directly answer your first question no, to cellar a beer isn't just to "flatten" its flavor profile, or few people would do it. @57md has a good answer - cellaring does tend to bring out more flavors that are sometimes hidden by more domineering parts of a big beer whether it is barrel, hops, additions, etc. Akin to pruning back a bush, this aging can expose more of the subtle elements of a beer.

    On the other hand as @DIM above noted, plenty of beers don't improve with age. They might smooth out or grow less 'hot', but in many cases they march along on a trajectory downwards - some quickly, some slowly & gracefully.

    To cellar is to experiment with your own palate. Personally over the past decade plus I've found a handful of beers that I loved aged - Surly Darkness, Pelican Mother of All Storms, Central Waters Bourbon Barrel Barleywine - & my cellar is now mostly composed of these things that I know I like aged. Early failures for me include stellar beers like Expedition Stout - which to me develops too much cherry flavor as it ages - & plenty of people would disagree with that.

    If you're interested, choose a few beers to cellar, toss them in a dark corner & start sipping them after one, two years. If nothing else it's always an interesting experiement.
     
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  6. dennisthreeninefiveone

    dennisthreeninefiveone Pundit (980) Aug 11, 2020 New Jersey
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    Bigfoot is one of the very few beers that I think improves with age, It's best with 1 -2 years of aging. More than that it continues to change but not improve.
     
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  7. dlcarst

    dlcarst Zealot (733) Aug 21, 2015 Missouri
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    The above posts have pretty much said it well. Barleywines, especially the hoppy American variety, and Belgian quads benefit from a few years. Many hoppy imperial stouts benefit from a year or two, but beyond that tend to have off flavors. Smoked porters tend to be a little more complex after a couple years. I've been cellaring for 6 years now, which is enough time to figure out what actually improves and what doesn't. Today my cellar is about 50% barleywines/old ales that I cellar because they do actually improve, 25% stouts that I just accumulate and decide to put away for another year or two because I have too much damn beer, and the other 25% is other stuff like 120 Minute IPA, smoked porters, quads, wild ales, lambics.
     
  8. Brugesman

    Brugesman Devotee (380) Apr 22, 2020 Oregon
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    Let's not forget Flanders red and brown ales, and gueuzes. They are great cellaring candidates, in addition to the styles mentioned above. North Coast Brewing's Old Stock Ale is another great candidate.

    Patrick Dawson's "Vintage Beer" is a great book on all aspects of cellaring. It includes his 14 Vintage Beer Rules, e.g., #3: "Darker malts create sherry and port flavors with age."
     
  9. JrGtr

    JrGtr Pooh-Bah (1,775) Apr 13, 2006 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    Beer ages like wine - some improve with time, most do not, and some improve to a point then go back downhill.
    And this is of styles that do have potential - IPAs and pale beers do not age well, drink those as fresh as possible. Bigger stouts, Barleywines, and Dubbels and Quads are the styles most likely to age well (as well as some sour styles)
    However, some age well, some don't - for instance, one Imperial Stout may age well and possibly improve, but a similar one may not.
     
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  10. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    The only style that I have enjoyed more aged over fresh have been barleywines. Not American barleywines either. The hops oxidize and have a flavor I just do not enjoy. JW Lee's harvest ale, succaba, beers in that vain seem to improve for me. Adjuncts fade, oxidized coffee tastes like bell peppers. Beers like orval that contain brett can certainly evolve over time. Some of Crooked Staves first beers had butyric acid issues. They smelled like puke. Over time the brett metabolized those compounds into one that smells like mango.
     
  11. Traquairlover

    Traquairlover Initiate (0) Nov 10, 2007 Virginia

    Personally, I think it depends on the beer. The vast majority of beers should be enjoyed within a few weeks or months of bottling. Some few change in favorable ways if you store them properly. Really cellaring is a fairly major undertaking, though. You really need to buy by the case then taste over time.

    Barleywines and imperial stouts tend to be the best at aging. It can also be an acquired taste, though. If you are not ready to buy cases and store them properly for 5+ years, it may not be the hobby for you.

    But the results can be glorious (admittedly, they can also be horrid.)
     
  12. Stoutofmymind

    Stoutofmymind Crusader (405) Aug 27, 2015 Ohio
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    I think it's very dependent on the beer itself (ie. - how long and what conditions it's aged under, what adjuncts are included, etc.). I've found that there are certain adjuncts that fade much more quickly than others (coffee for example) and that makes a great deal of difference to how long to age a beer.

    Aging beer, though it has many guidelines, is not an exact science. There are many, many variables and, as with any experiment (as cellaring beer is if you get right down to it), it's all about controlling those variables. A cool, dark storage space is essential, 50-55 degrees ideally, but as close to 60 as possible if that range is not obtainable. Basement storage, if you have it, is the most cost-efficient way of achieving this, but the key is eliminating as much heat and light as possible from coming in contact with beers you're aging. Those are the 2 biggest enemies to proper aging.

    When in doubt, I've always found it better to crack open a beer after 6-12 months and see how it's turned out. It helps if you have tried to the beer fresh to have a baseline to judge it against, but that has been the sweet spot for many of the beers I've aged. Certain styles, like barleywines, tend to hold up a bit longer, but personally, I've had little success of flavor improvement beyond 18 months when I've had a baseline comparison. Certain flavors will blend and meld together with time and proper conditions, but again, with so many variables, it's hard to pin down an exact time for any specific beer.

    Aging is very much a trial and error process and all I can say is to keep asking questions and keeping trying new things. Not everything will work out the way you want it to, but each experiment will give you information to fine tune the process and there is always this forum of vast knowledge to help out. Hope this helps.
     
  13. jamesloc

    jamesloc Aspirant (285) Aug 8, 2018 New York
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    I feel like beera from a few years back aged well. I feel like all the new beers with a ton of adjuncts dont age well
     
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  14. BasWassenaar

    BasWassenaar Devotee (366) May 2, 2017 Netherlands
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    Trial and error is the way to go i guess. Try cellaring some cheaper beers of some variety and see how you like their development.
     
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  15. Ernest7

    Ernest7 Devotee (349) Apr 24, 2019 Belgium

    I second the mayor part of the posts of maximum12 and Stoutofmymind.

    Since 1986, I am tasting and appreciating aged beer. In 2006, I started aging beer in my own cellar. I never age beer I have not tasted fresh. By tasting the fresh beer I decide if the beer is up for aging. Many types of beer are open for aging and the last brewer of a beer is the beer taster. The latter can decide to age well beyond the Best Before Date (BBD).
    Here in Belgium, the BBD was not indicated on bottles for quite some time. In fact, there are still Belgian beers on which no BBD is indicated: Stille Nacht (Reserva), Oerbier Special Reserva, La Trappe Quadrupel Oak Aged, Rodenbach Vin de Céréale, Alvinne Cuvée d'Erpigny (1st edition), Blue Monk, Hanssens Oude Kriek (recent edition), ...
    The BBD is fluctuating heavily: from 1 yr up to 20 yrs. It all depends on what the brewer wants to indicate.
    Of course, some beers are definitely not open for aging, for example pils/lager beer and (very) low ABV beers (below 6.5 % ABV except for oude geuze and kriek) and pasteurized beer (so mostly beers with living yeast cells in the bottle). Belgian beers that age wonderfully are trappists and oude geuze/kriek but also many other Belgian beers age graciously. As said above, trial and error are essential. Tasting aged beers concerns a semi-scientific trial and error, and not a mere matter of opinion. Quality management in a cellar full of aged beer is crucial.

    And what happens when aging beer?
    The aromas and tastes (like fruity and vegetable esters) vaguely present in fresh beer will intensify. Of course, hop aromas and tastes will fade away after some time. But then again new aromas and flavors will spring to your mind.
    Blond beers tend to evolve towards white wine, sherry (from fino to medium); redbrown/oudbruin towards red wine; and madeira, brown/black beers towards portwine.

    How to age?
    Crown corked bottles are stored vertically in order not to touch the crown cork cap. Corked bottles are stored horizontally in order to maximize the contact between the yeast and the beer: the yeast cells want to eat the eatable sugars in the beer and the more contact surface, the more food there is.
    Darkness is of utmost importance, and so is a constant temperature (+/- 12° C or even lower). Also quietness is important: no vibrations from fridges, washing machines, trains/trams. No odeurs and no machinery around.
    And uncork a horizontally stored bottle horizontally (no pun intended). Open a vertically stored bottle vertically.
    Very old, aged beers (20+ yrs) should be uncorked or opened a few hours before tasting. Decanting is a good idea.
     
  16. Davl22

    Davl22 Maven (1,341) Sep 27, 2011 New Hampshire
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    I think that the barrel aged/high abv beers that brewers are releasing today are vastly different than what was available 10 years ago. Brewers are aging and bottle conditioning for much longer and the majority tend to be ready to drink ASAP after the release. I'll reiterate that aged beer doesn't necessarily get better, it just changes and is up to your personal preference whether or not you enjoy it.
     
  17. Beersnake

    Beersnake Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,884) Aug 17, 2013 California
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I think you will find your answer if you go though some of the threads in this forum. There are plenty of reviews of aged beer, some which have gotten a lot better, others that haven't. It's all about exploring your own preferences.
     
  18. Bitterbill

    Bitterbill Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,036) Sep 14, 2002 Wyoming
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Yeah. What I have found befuddling is that I can cellar 2 of the same beers, same editions and they can turn out so differently.
     
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  19. CarolinaCardinals

    CarolinaCardinals Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,219) Jun 11, 2003 North Carolina
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Totally agree with your commentary. Additionally, pasteurization by the bigger regional breweries adds no value for aging purposes as opposed to the pre-pasteurization days (i am looking at Deschutes The Abyss).
    With regard to the OP, with my inexperienced palate back 10-15 years ago with BBA brews, i found fresh BBA beers to be too hot for my palate to enjoy (looking at BCBS) but did find them more enjoyable with 2-3 years of age on them.
    Nowadays my palate is pretty well adjusted and can handle most high gravity beers and with the fact high gravity BBA beers are better made these days aging does not really add any value.
     
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  20. Brian29

    Brian29 Initiate (0) Nov 15, 2013 Ohio
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    I wouldnt cellar any beer. Your best brewers bottle when theyve determined their beer to be ideal. Aging it only takes it beyond its best by date...as determined by the person that crafted it. Oxidation is occuring, so perhaps one indeed prefers oxidation in their beers, so that is a matter of personal preference.
    The flavors are deteriorating as well, thus melding and becoming less robust.
    Tasting is subjective to each individual, but i argue against cellaring for the above reasons.
     
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